What is your opinion of those who declare the people of sin and vice, and those who promote forbidden singing tapes, to be disbelievers?

The questioner : All right, Shaykh, what do you say about the one who promotes this statement and declares these people to be disbelievers?

The Shaykh : I say that they are from the extreme Khawarij.

The questioner : So I will not mention his name, lest you attack me as you did on another occasion, O our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No harm, this attack will be for your benefit.

The questioner : Yes, Shaykh, by Allah, I reward you with much reward, O Shaykh, and I pray for you that you guide us. May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : May Allah preserve you.

The questioner : This is the methodology, this is the methodology we always ask about, and perhaps you are strict with us in your words, and this is as they say, meaning, too much talk makes the chest burst, or as they say among us, this is what we keep talking about. This is a man with a call and a great caller, and he says in his tapes what I told you, with some of the exact phrases, but his speech is long. He says: "But after I spoke about this man of vice and the one who circulates tapes of singers and those who speak of sin and vice," and so on and so on, he said, "This man, without doubt, asserts that this person does not believe in the prohibition of Allah the Exalted for these matters. So such people, without doubt, their action is apostasy from Islam. I say this while I am at ease and my heart is reassured about it."

The Shaykh : Where does he say this?

The questioner : In his tape.

The Shaykh : All right, can you send it to me?

The questioner : The tape.

The Shaykh : Or send me the person, I mean.

The questioner : I have transcribed this tape onto a paper.

The Shaykh : I do not want to hear his voice.

The questioner : You have my word, Shaykh, you have my word.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The questioner : I have heard a lot, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : I have heard a lot, I say.
The student : I prayed for you, I have heard a lot of supplication for a long life, I have heard a lot.

The Shaykh : Is it permissible for you to let me hear his name?

The questioner : By Allah, I have no objection, Shaykh, Salman al-Oudah.

The Shaykh : Salman al-Oudah.

The questioner : Yes, the tape is called "Youth: Questions and Problems."

The Shaykh : Yes, send me the tape.

The questioner : Yes, and then, Shaykh, there was another tape before this one where he spoke about this issue and declared the singers to be disbelievers. Yes, then he said in the other tape, when he was asked a question, they said, "You mentioned that this is apostasy and this action is apostasy." He said, "And they ask me for further clarification, so I clarify to them this time what is difficult for them." Then he said: "And the one who... until he said: 'So this is an assertion that these people do not believe in the prohibition of Allah the Exalted, and I have no doubt in their apostasy from Islam.'" Meaning, he added fuel to the fire.

The Shaykh : All right, has anyone discussed this with him? Because discussion, my brother, clarifies the truth. For example, at the time I say this statement is wrong, perhaps if he is discussed scientifically, he will either retract a little or a lot, or he will present his argument such that I or someone else says, "By Allah, you have a point." But when we hear his opinion after the discussion, the heat that we, I mean, pushed us to say that he is the disbeliever, because whoever declares a Muslim to be a disbeliever has himself disbelieved, this heat of ours after discussing with him may decrease. For example, I tell you, Jamal, if he says to you: "I consider that this man's continuation in committing these sins, I understand that this man considers these sins permissible in his heart," what do we say to him? Did you understand me?

The questioner : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh : Ah, I want us not to widen the tear for the mender. If Salman were in front of me, I would discuss it with him. And if he gave me the answer I assumed for him, I would say, "This is your opinion, but I do not see this enthusiasm in declaring these addicts and those who continue in these sins to be disbelievers, because by doing so you will declare the masses of Muslims to be disbelievers. And we know from the hadith of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) that one of the Companions drank for the first time, and the second time, and the third time, and the hadd was established against him every time. And the last time, when the hadd was established against him, one of the witnesses to the hadd against him said: "May Allah curse him, how much he drinks!" So he (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ; Perhaps you understood me?

The questioner : Yes, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Meaning, we respond to these addicts of sins and we say, "Enough for them is what I told you." Regarding some of the sins, their effeminacy is enough for them. And we say on the other hand to our brother Salman, "Slowly, slowly, do not throw such words around, because you will be an aid to the devils against your brothers." And so we must say, being moderate toward the sinners and the callers at the same time. Who else do you have?

The questioner : May Allah bless you, may Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh. O our Shaykh, if I have a will after the fear of Allah, I would like you to reflect on the words attributed to this man. And may Allah not let the brothers be hit with anything false without them bearing its sin on the Day of Resurrection. But these are clear facts, O Shaykh, before us regarding this man. And it is difficult, O Shaykh, to discuss a caller who also explains his first statement, if we say it was a slip of the tongue, and then he explains it while his heart and mind are at ease. So how do we discuss him?

The Shaykh : Just as you discuss the caller in front of you.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh, may Allah bless you. And may Allah willing, I will discuss it with him on the phone, because he is in al-Qassim and I am in al-Ta'if, so it is difficult for us to go to him.

The Shaykh : No, he is closer to you than I am.

The questioner : O Shaykh, he is closer to you than to me. May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : And beware of that.

The questioner : O Shaykh, our question is about Shaykh Ali and Shaykh Salim and all the brothers, andAbu Layla : their conditions, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I am well, and praise be to Allah.

The questioner : May Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : Did the magazine al-Asalah reach you?

The questioner : Al-Asalah cooled our hearts, and praise be to Allah, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : How?

The questioner : I say it cooled our hearts.

The Shaykh : Yes, may Allah bless you all.

The questioner : And may Allah make it beneficial.

The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah, that is what we want.

The questioner : O Allah, amen, and may Allah reward you with good, and we ask Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) to make them successful and help them.

The Shaykh : May Allah grant that, O Lord of the worlds.

The questioner : The Shaykhs there in al-Madinah received copies of it, so I said they should write and strengthen the arms of our brothers, and they said they will do so, may Allah willing.

The Shaykh : Yes, but we are not with the extremists.

The questioner : Very good, may Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : And yesterday we had a session here about the magazine.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : And you will see the near issue, may Allah willing, the second one.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : You will see it soon, may Allah willing, in your hands.

The questioner : If Allah wills.