Continuation of the discussion on the ruling regarding the one who abandons prayer.

The questioner : But they have the understanding of the righteous Salaf for this, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Go back to the previous question, and I hope you will adopt this as a rule in your research and principles: All of them? The consensus of the righteous Salaf? Or is it some of them and some of them?

The questioner : Some of them and some of them.

The Shaykh : If?

The questioner : But, O Shaykh, Abdullah ibn al-Shaqiq reported the consensus of the Companions...

The Shaykh : On what they considered a matter...

The questioner : "The Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not consider the abandonment of any matter to be disbelief except prayer." So this is a transmission of their consensus.

The Shaykh : If we discuss this report from within, not from without, meaning from its text and not its chain of narration. Its chain is good, but is it true that a Muslim is not declared a disbeliever for anything except abandoning prayer? So if he abandons zakah, for example, what is his ruling?

The questioner : If they consider it disliked... meaning you distinguish his statement, O Shaykh, regarding...

The Shaykh : No, if he abandons zakah, is he a disbeliever? Say no?

The questioner : He distinguishes in this: if he abandons it while denying its obligation...

The Shaykh : My dear, I am not telling you what his ruling is; I am asking you: is he a disbeliever? You say yes, you say no.

The questioner : Meaning in some cases he is a disbeliever, and in some cases he is not a disbeliever.
Al-Halabi : The necessary implication of the Companion's statement is that he is not a disbeliever, because they did not consider anything to be a cause of disbelief except abandoning prayer.

The questioner : No, this is not understood from their statement, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: How?

The questioner : This is not understood from Abdullah's statement.

The Shaykh : Okay, you respond to him, and I will keep my question for later.

The questioner : I say this is not understood from Abdullah's statement.
Al-Halabi : And how about their statement: "They did not consider the abandonment of any deed to be disbelief except prayer"? This is an exception, meaning a part of the whole, and it contains restriction: "It was not except..." "They were not except..." And this is one of the strongest proofs for restriction.

The Shaykh : So what do you say about the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)? Is it a stronger argument than the statement of the Companion?

The questioner : The statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : Is there any doubt about this?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : Okay, he (peace and blessings be upon him) said: Do you believe that the Companions believed in this hadith as we believe?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : So there is something else.

The questioner : How, my Shaykh?

The Shaykh : Something else, meaning they say it is disbelief, meaning...

Another questioner : They consider it disbelief other than prayer.

The questioner : This is lesser disbelief, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : This is what we want. Know it and adhere to it. This is what we want.
Al-Halabi : O our Shaykh, I raised an objection to him regarding the issue of...

The Shaykh : Let us finish with this one.
Al-Halabi : Excuse me...

The Shaykh : Let us wrap it up, because it is now in hand.
Al-Halabi : O our Shaykh, it has been wrapped up and finished.

The Shaykh : No, excuse me, we need him to be convinced in his heart so that he returns to his country as a caller to Allah, if Allah wills, so that he can be a helper for us in softening this attack of declaring Muslims disbelievers. This is a very necessary matter. How do you distinguish between the one to whom your infallible Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) referred, of whom the least that can be said is that he knows how to eat a chicken, and any other person? Is that right or not?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : How do you describe the one who says that fighting is lesser disbelief? And the one who is not good at saying the same, you say is pure disbelief, which is apostasy...

The questioner : Because the number of texts does not exclude the first...

The Shaykh : What?

The questioner : Texts came that do not exclude the first, that it is lesser disbelief, and it does not appear to us. Rather, other texts came that support that the disbelief intended in his (peace and blessings be upon him) statement: .

The Shaykh : It happened, it occurred; because you were now in one place and you moved to another place. You were in the place of arguing with the statement of the Companions, and then you moved to another place in supporting the statement of the Companions with the texts of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). So while you were making the statement an argument in itself, you returned to feeling that you need to support it with the words of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). Yes.

The questioner : Yes, it is clear.

The Shaykh : So I believe that you are not mistaken in this method, you must make the statement of the Companions last, and the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) first. Not that you jump straight to saying there is consensus on what I told you is a real consensus, meaning there is no disagreement. At first you said there was disagreement, then you said the Companions said such and such, and now you are undoing what you built and you feel from the bottom of your heart that this statement from the Companions must be supported by something else. Is that right or not?

The questioner : That is correct, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good. So now, do you return to argue for what you say, that the one who abandons prayer out of laziness is a disbeliever, with evidence other than this?

The questioner : No, there are many evidences other than this.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good and forgive you. Is that right or not? I am not telling you many or few evidences. I am telling you that after it became clear to you that your argument with the hadith of the Companions is wrong because it allows for this and that, it needs support. So what is your evidence? You say there are many things. The research between you and me is not about many or few, and the best speech is what is little and sufficient. Do you have many evidences?

The questioner : There are many evidences, yes.
Al-Halabi : Answer yes or no, like this.The Shaykh : He needs it.

The Shaykh : These are our brothers who have not been tested as we have been tested. They are not good at taking and responding.

The questioner : Yes, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Meaning "the best speech is what is little and sufficient."

The questioner : Good, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : I understood that you have many evidences. Would you please give the greatest evidence among them? The greatest evidence you have? Because if it is established that this greatest evidence is a proof, a proof , and if it is established that this evidence is weak too , because the evidences after it are even weaker. Bring it, and you have some space to think a little. If you have it memorized, can you give us the greatest evidence?
Al-Halabi : Your brothers in religion, what is the strongest thing they have in this issue?

The Shaykh : No, you are now teaching. This is not permissible.

The questioner : O Shaykh, now I want to point out only one point, that when I mentioned the statement of the Companion, it was not from the perspective of mentioning the statement of the Companion before the statement of Allah the Exalted or His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : No, I did not understand this. No, I did not understand this.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah. And it came as an aside, so I mentioned the statement of the Companion.

The Shaykh : Despite the fact that I did not understand this, you made a mistake in the argumentation, and this did not become clear to you?

The questioner : No, I understood, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Okay, I did not understand that you want something I did not understand. No, I did not understand it. But you made a mistake in the argumentation, because when you were confronted with the statement of the Infallible , we said to you: What is this? You said: Lesser disbelief. Okay, and the Companions said the same word regarding the one who abandons prayer: disbelief. Why did you not say lesser disbelief? You said there are evidences. Yes?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And now I will take you, because you repeated to my hearing over and over again that there are many evidences. So I am convinced by the little on behalf of the many, but to shorten the path of research and discussion, bring the greatest evidence you have, since you are convinced that it is the decisive evidence in the matter. Bring it. If it is as you say, we concede to you. If it is not so, you concede to us. Because the greatest evidence has fallen from your hand and the reins of its matter have slipped from your mind. So then the matter ends by agreement. So what is it? In the name of Allah. If you have it, be a helper to your brother. Bring it.

The questioner : But I have two evidences that are equal in strength, and only...

The Shaykh : No, no. May Allah forgive you.
Al-Halabi : Take your time, take your time. The strongest thing, and then you will go down step by step.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, O Abdullah. And I am with you, if Allah wills.

The questioner : His statement: And the one before it: .

The Shaykh : Yes, this Qur'anic text is an argument against you.

The questioner : How, my Shaykh?

The Shaykh : Because you just now distinguished between zakah and prayer...
Al-Halabi : Oh my, oh my.

The Shaykh : Is that not so?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, and now you have unified them. So what are you standing on? O Allah, guide us among those You have guided.

The questioner : I say that the apparent meaning of this verse is...

The Shaykh : You want to speak again, and I have given you a break. May Allah forgive you. I gave you a break. What is the apparent meaning of the verse? The apparent meaning of the verse is that these are disbelievers, and I agree with you. But the apparent meaning of the verse is that the one who abandons zakah is like the one who abandons prayer, and you said no, it is not so.

The questioner : I did not understand, O Shaykh, what is intended now.

The Shaykh : Why? What does the verse say?

The questioner : Our brothers.

The Shaykh : Okay, if they repent and give zakah and do not establish prayer, are they your brothers?

The questioner : No, they are not our brothers.

The questioner : Why is this? This is going to become like our father Adam with us. May Allah forgive you. One verse.

The questioner : Answer, O Shaykh. When it is established from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)...

The Shaykh : He returned now. This is the greatest evidence that you yourself refuted.

The questioner : Okay, wait with me. Be patient with me.

The Shaykh : Take the patience of Ayyub (peace be upon him).

The questioner : O Shaykh, you taught us not to understand the Qur'an alone without understanding the Sunnah and the understanding of the righteous Salaf.
Al-Halabi : That is what we want.

The Shaykh : We are just going around in circles.

The questioner : We are all going around in circles, if Allah wills, saying that regarding zakah, there is what excludes the original ruling. We say that the apparent meaning of the verse is disbelief, but there is what excludes the withholding of zakah...

The Shaykh : The apparent meaning of the verse is that the one who abandons prayer is a disbeliever, and the one who withholds zakah is a disbeliever.

The questioner : And some of the scholars said this.

The Shaykh : No problem, so what came?

The questioner : What excludes the withholding of zakah.

The Shaykh : Meaning he is not a disbeliever?

The questioner : That he is not a disbeliever.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence?

The questioner : The evidence, then one looks at his path, either to the Fire or to Paradise.

The Shaykh : Then what?

The questioner : Then one looks at his path. The hadith is , and it is known that a disbeliever cannot have his path looked at toward Paradise. So it is known from this that the one who withholds zakah is excluded from this verse by this hadith, in that he does not become a disbeliever.

The Shaykh : That is a beautiful point; that was not actually on my mind.
Al-Halabi : It happened to him as it happened to him.

The Shaykh : Yes, so does the meaning of the verse mean: "If they repent and establish prayer and do not give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion"?

The questioner : And if they do not give zakah, they are our brothers in religion?

The Shaykh : Is that the meaning of your statement, or am I wrong, everyone?
Al-Halabi : By Allah, up to now, no, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Yes, up to now, no.
Al-Halabi : Because we need to see what comes after.

The Shaykh : See what they say to the Shaykh, that up to now...The Shaykh : It is not wrong, meaning there is a possibility that he is wrong. Remember this, and then pass it on to your Shaykhs.

The questioner : Their second evidence?
Al-Halabi : Let us stay with the first one.

The questioner : Shaykh, this verse, if he does not exclude it, meaning if he does not deny its obligation and withhold it, he does not become a disbeliever. Is this its meaning, yes?

The Shaykh : My brother, there is no need for detail, because our discussion is about the one who abandons it out of laziness. There is no need for detail, because when one abandons any of the rulings of the religion out of denial, he exits the religion, and there is no disagreement on this.

The questioner : This is the meaning of the verse.

The Shaykh : What is the meaning of the verse?

The questioner : This is its meaning: if they repent and establish prayer and do not give zakah, they are your brothers.

The Shaykh : Why then "and do not give zakah," when the text of the Qur'an, according to your claim, is that if one of the conditions is negated, the whole conditioned thing is negated.

The questioner : Because, O Shaykh, we do not understand the Qur'an alone without the Sunnah.

The Shaykh : It is good.

The questioner : .

The Shaykh : Stick to this.

The questioner: All right.

The Shaykh : Does not the Sunnah indicate that the one who abandons, the one who abandons prayer out of laziness—we emphasize out of laziness—that he is not a disbeliever?

The questioner : An explicit text, without any possibilities arising against it.

The Shaykh : Yes, why then possibilities?

The questioner : Because these possibilities are not as strong as the first one, because we now have...

The Shaykh : Why did you take the path of return as possibilities?

The questioner : Because it came in the Sunnah.

The Shaykh : That is it. Bring it so we can see what came in the Sunnah and what is the possibility that is raised against it?

The questioner : Like the hadith of the card.

The Shaykh : Well, what is the matter with it?

The questioner : That he did not do any good except this word.

The Shaykh : Well, what is raised against it?

The questioner : It is raised against it that this man was not able to do good deeds, like the one who killed ninety-nine souls.
Al-Halabi : And he was able to do one hundred sins, recorded.

The Shaykh : So it is like that. And the mass-transmitted hadiths about intercession on the Day of Resurrection , and in a narration, from faith, he was not able to perform the deeds of faith. And in the authentic hadiths , prayer and Hajj and the like are mentioned. He was not able to perform all the righteous deeds; therefore, only an atom of faith and an atom of good remained in his heart. That is the meaning of the hadith, and this is how the scholars of the Salaf, from whom we received the creed, present it. When they present intercession and the hadiths of intercession, they mean those who were not able to perform any good deed. Is that so? You have fallen into what you condemned in those who opposed you from the people of desires: you twist and turn around the authentic hadiths and interpret them with an idea established in your minds. You have not been able, even to this day, to prove it with evidence from the Book and the Sunnah except by interpretation. And in any case, the evidence you mentioned is an argument against you, because you interpret it in a way that resembles the denial of the interpreted texts of the Book and the Sunnah regarding the divine attributes. So now, there is no difference between us, meaning between us and the people of the Sunnah and the community, and the people of theology regarding denial. The difference is formal: those deny the texts related to the divine attributes, and these deny the texts related to the legal rulings, and denial is one. I return to something else: how are you able to interpret it, and it is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him): , along with His saying (Glorified and Exalted is He): How? Perhaps you mean, if Allah wills, you did not think about denying this hadith as well?

The questioner : They thought about it and answered.

The Shaykh : Bring it so we can see?

The questioner : But I do not have it memorized right now.

The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah.
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, no problem, one word.

The Shaykh : Be patient a little. It occurred to me: is the one who abandons prayer a disbeliever only, or is he also an associate of partners with Allah? I tell you, let yourself go, because you are in danger now...

The questioner : Between the man and...

The Shaykh : Do not favor me with the hadith. Give me your opinion, answer the question.

The questioner : The disbeliever is an associate of partners with Allah, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And the associate of partners with Allah?

The questioner : A disbeliever.

The Shaykh : A disbeliever, good. So this associate of partners with Allah who abandons prayer is not forgiven, is he not?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : But the hadith is explicit that he is forgiven.

The questioner : I have now forgotten what they argued with.

The Shaykh : Good, if Allah wills, and you, my brother.

Another questioner : Their second evidence says: since...?
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, he said now, and he said it to me before in the gathering, that they answered this because it is the will, and it is not the will, but they do not mention the specific determination or the choice, while the evidence that excluded abandoning zakah from disbelief is the same thing in terms of the ruling: the will, either to Paradise or to the Fire, without certainty. And this is either to disbelief, or that he is forgiven, or that he is not forgiven. So they are the same. What he said in the first, he says in the second, and vice versa.

The questioner : No, O Shaykh Ali, but I am not in this description...
Al-Halabi : No, this is their statement, this is their statement.

The questioner : No, they have their argument, and I promised you a manuscript, if Allah wills, by the permission of Allah...
Al-Halabi : This is what I see in the statement.

The questioner : No, my brother, it is new, my brother. I will send it to the Shaykh, if Allah wills, and perhaps he will call you.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : The second evidence, yes.

Another questioner : In this statement, attributed to some of them, they say that this is from the category of being polite with Allah (Glorified and Exalted), like his saying (peace and blessings be upon him)...

The Shaykh : What is the politeness?

Another questioner : They say that the will, if He wills He forgives, and if He wills He punishes, is from the category of politeness.

The Shaykh : Who is the one being polite?

The questioner : Meaning this statement is from the category of politeness, like the saying of...

The Shaykh : Who is the one being polite? "Al-muta'addib" is an active participle. Who is the one being polite, they say?

The questioner : The apparent from their statement is that it is the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : The Messenger is polite, yes?

The questioner : That is what they say.

The Shaykh : Polite with Allah?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Meaning, be patient. This one who says it sees that the one who abandons prayer, in the opinion of the Messenger, in the ijtihad of the Messenger, in his understanding, in his Shari'ah, is a disbeliever?

The questioner : Yes, exactly.

The Shaykh : He sees it this way, but nevertheless he leaves the matter to the will of Allah?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : If He wills He punishes him, and if He wills He forgives him, is that what you mean?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : This is the first thing we hear of denial.

The questioner : They argue for that with the saying of 'Isa (peace be upon him) regarding forgiveness: "They are Your servants. If You will, You forgive them, and if You will, You punish them." Yes, for this, I do not know your answer.

The Shaykh : Good, if you are with them, do not say that you are speaking about others...

The questioner : No, I heard a doubt and I want you to clarify it, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : Well, you heard it, so what was your answer to it? Give us your support, you.

The questioner : I stopped.

The questioner : He who reaches the sea, the canal is easy for him.

The Shaykh : Yes, we say that this situation is not to be compared to that. We are not in the world with the insight in the legal rulings, so he there leaves the matter to Allah (Mighty and Majestic). This is like an absolute answer; but this is based on the fact that it was known to 'Isa (peace be upon him) what Allah did not make known to our Prophet from His saying: Do we have a text in that?

The questioner : Our Shaykh, we do not have a text.

The Shaykh : We have no text for that, so it is not permissible to cite this text as evidence. Because this argument rests on the assumption that if our Messenger had said such words, it would mean that what was revealed to him, , we say the first answer is the correct one. As for 'Isa (peace be upon him), we have nothing indicating that this was also revealed to him. Therefore, we cannot say that everything Allah revealed to our Prophet was similarly revealed to the prophets and messengers before him. So this objection has no weight or value, because it is based on something for which there is no evidence or proof. Bring your second proof so we can see it?

The questioner : They say, since you claim that they are disbelievers, what is your answer to the hadith? The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: . So merely by leaving it, leaving the prayer, the term "disbelief" is applied to him in this hadith.

The Shaykh : What do you say about the saying of Allah the Exalted: ?

The questioner : We say that the one who...

The Shaykh : Just as your companion said earlier, "disbelief less than disbelief," and you do not say anything else?

The questioner : I, O Shaykh, have not reached the level where I judge anyone except in a few cases. What is their answer, O Shaykh, to this evidence?

The Shaykh : I thought you would say something. What is it? I mean, you asked me, and my answer is your answer regarding the verse. So what do you say about the verse, "Those are the disbelievers"?

The questioner : I say that knowledge is with Allah the Mighty and Majestic. Allah knows best.

The Shaykh : So, knowledge is with Allah, I say. Is that sufficient?

The questioner : It is sufficient if they cite this hadith and say, "How do you say he is not a disbeliever when we say he is a disbeliever?"

The Shaykh : But you delegated the knowledge to Allah regarding the verse. Why did you not delegate the matter to Allah regarding the hadith?

The questioner : Because the hadith is explicit, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : The verse is more explicit, is it not?

The questioner : Yes, the Book of Allah is more explicit.

The Shaykh : So you are contradicting yourself greatly.

The questioner : No, I am not contradicting myself, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I am telling you, take a lesson from your brother 'Abdullah. How he is so composed and steady in his state; he does not answer except after thinking. And if he does not mention the text that should be interpreted and instead rambles around it... You have now brought the hadith . This was answered earlier. The answer from your companion was "disbelief less than disbelief." Why do we not say regarding his saying (peace be upon him), "so he has disbelieved," that it means "disbelief less than disbelief"? And now we want to direct a question to you: Do you affirm the distinction between creedal disbelief and practical disbelief, this division we understood from some of the imams? Or do you not affirm it?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : What is the difference between creedal disbelief and practical disbelief in terms of their essence first? Then what is the outcome of the disagreement between creedal disbelief and practical disbelief? Is the question clear?

The questioner : If Allah wills, may I answer?

The Shaykh : Regarding the first question.

The questioner : The difference, O Shaykh, is that creedal disbelief, whether accompanied by an action or not, does not benefit...

The Shaykh : I asked two questions. What is the difference between creedal disbelief and... Let Professor 'Ali be with us, not with others, especially if they are from the deceased, meaning...
Al-Halabi : By Allah, O Shaykh, I am reviewing...

The Shaykh : No problem, no problem. But we need you to participate in the topic, because we will support you with your brother.
Al-Halabi : May Allah reward you, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : My question was two questions regarding creedal disbelief and practical disbelief. The first is: What is the essence of the difference between creedal disbelief and practical disbelief? This is the first question. The second question is: What is the outcome of this difference? What is the result of the difference? Is the distinction clear?

The questioner : Clear, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Okay, so I ask the first question: What is the essence of creedal disbelief and practical disbelief? After that, if you wish, answer me about the outcome of this difference.

The questioner : In my opinion, O Shaykh, from the perspective of belief, it is that he believes in it, it is inside his heart, meaning, and practical is that he acts upon this matter.

The Shaykh : Good. Now, does the one who leaves the prayer believe in its lawfulness but not act upon it? Does not your earlier answer apply to him?

The questioner : In general, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh : So it is general and specific.

The questioner : We must have some detail, O Shaykh, to be precise.

The Shaykh : Is the detail from you or from me?

The questioner : From me...

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : Because I cannot give you the answer except... We say, in general, it applies to him.

The Shaykh : And in specific?

The questioner : And in specific, it does not apply to him.

The Shaykh : Why?

The questioner : Because there are actions that, even if the doer does not believe they are acts of disbelief, merely by performing them, he disbelieves and exits the circle of Islam.

The Shaykh : I do not believe this in Islam, so guide you, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : I mean, for example, O Shaykh, a person believes...

The Shaykh : Do not say "believes," say a person acts.

The questioner : Wait, O Shaykh. A person believes that Allah is the truth and that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) is the truth, but he mocks. He brings something to mock the religion, such as cursing Allah and cursing the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him and his family), even though he believes that Allah the Glorious and Exalted means... and it is only out of mockery.

The Shaykh : You have not hit the mark, O 'Abdullah.

The questioner : Direct me, O Shaykh. I mean, this is according to my knowledge and understanding, and Allah knows best.

The Shaykh : Of course, you do not speak "according to my knowledge and understanding." This is understood to be according to your knowledge and understanding.

The questioner : I mean, it is not, if Allah wills, a transmission from the shaykhs.

The Shaykh : Yes. The one who curses Allah, does he curse the Allah that we believe in, or the one that he believes in?

The questioner : The one that he believes in.

The Shaykh : So the deity that he believes in is the deity worshipped in truth?

The questioner : When he curses it?

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : I did not understand, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I did not understand. I want to say that if a person believes in something in its true reality, it is impossible for him to curse it. Did you understand this?

The questioner : I understood.

The Shaykh : ... Based on that, the previous question came.

The questioner : I mean, do you want something from the Shari'ah to prove my point?

The Shaykh: Go ahead.
Al-Halabi : The first one is done...

The Shaykh : It does not help. Bring it so we can see.

The questioner : An action that causes disbelief, or he does not believe...

The Shaykh : An action that causes disbelief, or he does not believe. I mean, one who performs the action of the disbelievers but does not hold the belief of the disbelievers, does he disbelieve and exit the religion? Where is this in the world of Mars? In the entire universe, this does not exist.

The questioner : The Companions of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) did not see any action whose abandonment is disbelief except the prayer.

The Shaykh : Halimah has returned to her old habit.

The questioner : I mean, O Shaykh, it appears, and Allah knows best, that there is none.

The Shaykh : There is nothing.

The questioner : It appears, and Allah knows best, I mean, I am not saying this after exhaustive research.

The Shaykh : There is none, O Shaykh 'Abdullah. There is none.

The questioner : Did you research, O Shaykh?
Al-Halabi: Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah, you have benefited us, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : We have moved on to this, we have moved on to this. One of the errors prevalent among you is what is in the book of Tawhid. I remind you of your proof that we requested from you, but in reality, it is not a proof, O Abu Layla.
Al-Halabi : Enlighten us, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : If he wants to enlighten you, it means he is not a believer in all of this light... The hadith about a man entering the Fire because of a fly. Did you forget this hadith?

The questioner : I did not forget it.

The Shaykh : Is it not a proof for them? You do not have it? Pay attention.

The questioner : The first ones among them.

The Shaykh : The first ones among them, who do you mean by the first ones?

The questioner : I mean in the time ofThe Shaykh : Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab.

The Shaykh : And the later ones as well?

The Shaykh : By Allah, the later ones realized the weakness of the hadith and began to retract.

The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah... Okay.

The questioner : So this is, if Allah wills, a merit for you, and they mention this.

The Shaykh : We ask Allah to grant us His grace and knowledge.

The questioner: Amen.