He spoke on the issues of faith and that it increases and decreases.
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The Shaykh : Perhaps you believe with us that faith strengthens and weakens, and increases and decreases? I ask because there are two opinions on this matter, as we mentioned earlier. What is your opinion, O honorable one?
The questioner : I do not wish to precede your eminence with an opinion, but I say that the concomitants of faith are what rise and fall, whereas faith in itself cannot decrease, for if it decreased, it would become disbelief.
The Shaykh : I tell you frankly that this is an error, for it contradicts the explicit text of the Noble Qur'an in more than one verse, where it states [Ali 'Imran 3:173] How is it that you, who now believe in Allah and His Messenger, say, "I do not believe"? From where do you take your creed? I am asking you now? From where do you take the correct creed? From the Book and the Sunnah? Or from outside them? You must say from within them. Is that not so?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So if there are, may Allah bless you, numerous verses that explicitly state that faith increases, and anything that increases is subject to decrease, how can I conceive that a believer who believes in these texts then says, "I do not believe that faith increases and decreases," for if it decreased, it would mean he has exited the state of being a believer? If we agree, and praise be to Allah, that the creed is taken from the Book and the Sunnah, and this is a text—indeed, texts—in the Qur'an that faith increases and decreases, and the Sunnah confirms this, as in the hadith agreed upon by the two Shaykhs, which is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):Sahih Ibn Hibban 4:66 So when I say from here, you have been given, O professor, when you held a creed contrary to the Noble Qur'an and the correct Sunnah, what you heard from me became difficult for you. And in any case, I do not want to take you far from answering your question. I still say that there is a very close connection between the heart of the believer and his body, and I usually say a word that I was not inspired to say, and I will correct myself, just as the rectitude of the heart in the material aspect is connected to the rectitude of the body, so I cannot conceive of a man with a sick heart and a sound body. I cannot conceive of this. The same is exactly the case regarding the aspect of faith. I cannot conceive of a believer who was a disbeliever and then truly believed in Allah and His Messenger; it is impossible for me to conceive that he would remain as he was. And I think you agreed with me, but you said it is not necessary, as you added to my tongue, by mistake, the word "completely." I did not say "completely," and the reason is that faith, as we said, increases and decreases, and I cannot conceive of a person with complete faith after the Infallible, who is the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), but I can conceive of people who differ in faith. So the stronger one's faith, the stronger the apparent good effects on his body, and the weaker this faith or the less its strength, at least the less it appears on his body. So if we remove the word "completely," I think we are getting closer to each other, is that so?
The questioner : May Allah will it, we are close, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Is that so?
The questioner : Except that the hadith ... .
The Shaykh : You did not answer me.
The questioner : Yes, likewise.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, say it.
The questioner : Except that the hadithSahih Ibn Hibban 4:66 serves my statement that what increases and decreases is the concomitants of faith, not faith itself, for faith is related to affirmation, whereas the legal ruling is related to action. So when faith is sincere, meaning related to the creeds, related to affirmation, this means that if the affirmation decreased by a small part, meaning if we conceive that faith is belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, to everything that came from Islam, it is certain that if a part of it decreased, meaning as one of the open sinners, disbelievers, and oppressors said that he [Al-Ikhlas 112:1] What is the need for it? Does that leave anything of his faith?
The Shaykh : Excuse me, you now understand the problem with you. You are speaking about the creed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : We are speaking of faith in the concept of Islam. The creed means, for example, a person believes in the existence of Allah; if a grain of doubt enters him, he is a disbeliever. That is what you mean.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But that is not the research. I am speaking with you not only with logic and reason, but with reason, logic, and the Shari'ah above our heads.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : So what is faith in the Shari'ah?
The questioner : Faith is firm affirmation that corresponds to reality based on evidence. That is what I know, I mean.
The Shaykh : Allow me, you know this, this is a cliché we know, but where did you get this from? Allow me, we just reminded you of some texts that faith increases and decreases, and you got rid of these Quranic arguments by saying faith is defined thus and so. This is only the logical, rational definition of faith, whereas the faith mentioned by Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has another attribute. Then you do not go far, and I do not think you said in your heart, when you added the word "completely" and we agreed to remove it, that you are saying that the believer's faith increased and its effect appeared in his action, but what did you say? Not completely. If these effects that appear in a person's action are among the effects of his faith, and if you want to research the topic logically and rationally, my brother, faith, as you know, is not a material thing. It is like this light; if you shine lights and lights in this place, the light accepts increase and accepts increase. So for example, when you hear news from a person you trust and you affirmed it, but this affirmation is subject to fluctuation, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes, if it is from other than the Infallible.
The Shaykh : It does not need a condition. I tell you a person, and you say Infallible. There is no Infallible now. Then you heard this news from another person. What happened in your heart regarding the affirmation that was before? Did it remain as it was?
The questioner : Affirmation also.
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : Affirmation also.
The Shaykh : You did not answer me.
The questioner : Affirmation, affirmation.
The Shaykh : No, no, that is not my question. I told you, did it remain as it was? Say yes, say no.
The questioner : Meaning it increased, you mean it increased from the previous one, yes, confirm.
The Shaykh : Yes, I mean it increased from the previous one, or not?
The questioner : Confirm.
The Shaykh : Okay, a third, fourth, tenth, and twentieth came to you.
The questioner : Confirm.
The Shaykh : This is the faith that increases, and conversely, decreases.
The questioner : May Allah bless you, O Shaykh, but I mean that faith linguistically and legally, do you or your eminence have a definition of faith other than the one you defined?
The Shaykh : Certainly.
The questioner : Please go ahead.
The Shaykh : The verses we mentioned.
The questioner : On my eye and head, but I want a definition so that I can apply the texts to it.
The Shaykh : My brother, faith, may Allah bless you, definitions are terminological matters. The important thing is that you, I, and every Muslim submit their heart to what Allah informed us of. As for the definition you put, recently we were in a discussion similar to this, and we said to one of them, "There is no dispute in terminology," "There is no dispute in terminology." So you put a definition, and another person can put another definition, but the important thing is the verse you know about the hearts of humans. What does it say about the faith of the believers? Does it accept increase or not? You must say yes, it accepts increase, because this is the Quranic text. Then the definition you were taught since your youth, you want to apply it to this Quranic text, not reverse the subject. You apply the Quranic text to the definition. If this text agrees with the definition in head and eye, we accept the text. And if it does not agree, we reject the text for the sake of the definition!! We are telling you now, where did you get this definition from? And I tell you, it is contrary to the Quranic text. The definition says faith does not accept increase, and that if a grain decreases from it, and I agree with you because you are speaking rationally, but the Shari'ah informs us of what we do not know, and it says that faith increases. So why do you not say what Allah (Mighty and Majestic) says? What stops you from that?
The questioner : The truth is that I say what Allah says and I do not contradict what Allah says, if Allah wills. What came in the definition of faith by the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) regarding its increase and decrease indicates that it is connected to action. So I say that if it is connected to action, then it increases and decreases; the action, I mean, that follows faith. And therefore the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) says:Sunan an-Nasa'i 5659Sahih (Darussalam).
The Shaykh : May Allah inspire you with the argument against yourself.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : Did the fornicator commit disbelief?
The questioner : No, except in the moment when his connection to Allah left his mind.
The Shaykh : I am concerned with the exception. In that moment, did he commit disbelief?
The questioner : No. I mean, he distanced himself from faith in his action.
The Shaykh : My brother, you have brought the argument against yourself, and do not rush.Sahih al-Bukhari 6782 That is, he is not a believer when he commits fornication.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And if you say that faith does not accept increase and decrease, even regarding this fornicator in that moment that he is not a believer. We do not say that. Because we say that faith increases and decreases. So if his faith had been complete, he would not have committed fornication, he would not have stolen, he would not have plundered, and so on. But if you say he is a disbeliever, he is a disbeliever, he is a disbeliever, you will not find a way to get out of this dilemma in which you have thrown yourself except by saying with the view of the people of the Sunnah and the community: "Faith is speech and action, it increases and decreases." It reaches a degree where if it decreases, it is gone, but not every decrease means it is gone. And now, this hadith is in fact one of the proofs of the people of the Sunnah and the community who say that faith increases and decreases. So what harms you if you leave that definition aside, and you know that this definition did not come in the Book of Allah nor in the hadith of the Messenger of Allah, but it is merely a term used by a group of Muslims, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So what harms you to leave this definition aside and to say what Allah says and what the Messenger of Allah says, so that you do not fall into such a predicament? And this predicament has examples, and many examples indeed. I am telling you now:Mishkat al-Masabih 35Hasan (Zubair `Aliza'i) What do you say about the one who has no trustworthiness, is he a disbeliever?
The questioner : I say he is not a disbeliever.
The Shaykh : But he said there is no faith.
The questioner : That is, a part of the consequences of his faith has decreased.
The Shaykh : Why do you not say complete faith and incomplete faith, and whenever
The questioner : If it decreases, he commits disbelief.
The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah bless you, you are still not holding me accountable, and perhaps the group is now holding us accountable that we have digressed too much. You are still longing for your old school of thought: what is faith? My brother, this is faith. And as for the definition you brought, I say, for example, if I disbelieved in it, did I commit disbelief?
The questioner : No, of course you do not commit disbelief.
The Shaykh : But the one who denies the Qur'anic text commits disbelief.
The questioner: Correct.
The Shaykh : So what will they say? The one who does not want to see distressing dreams does not sleep between the graves. As long as this definition did not come to us from Allah nor from the Messenger, we leave it aside and we hold fast to the texts from the Book and the Sunnah, in which there is no problem, unless you long for your old school of thought. And we have now assumed that we leave this aside. Now I am asking you.
The questioner : Please go ahead.
The Shaykh : Is this definition agreed upon among the Muslims, or is it the opinion of one of the two schools of thought?
The questioner : By Allah, I do not know of anyone who disagreed on this definition.
The Shaykh: Allahu Akbar.
The questioner : I do not know of any scholarly status, and therefore I asked your eminence for another definition.
The Shaykh : Good, beautiful. Why do you not know? Do you not know that this is the school of the Maturidiyyah and the school of the Asha'irah differs from them, and that the Asha'irah say that faith increases and decreases, its increase by obedience and its decrease by disobedience? Why do you not know this?
The questioner : Why did you sit with us? To learn.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.
The questioner : I hope you will inform us.
The Shaykh : We thank you for your kindness in any case. I am surprised that you are a student, but why did you study one school of thought and leave the other? And this is very well known: the two schools of the Maturidiyyah and the Asha'irah are different from the school of the people of hadith. The Maturidiyyah, this is their opinion, this is their definition of faith. As for the Asha'irah, and with them the people of hadith, they say that faith increases and decreases, its increase by obedience and its decrease by disobedience. What do you want, a definition from me? I do not bring anything from myself. The Qur'an is sufficient for you, the hadith by which Allah has made you speak and by which the argument has been established against you is sufficient for you, and the hadith I have cited for you now is sufficient, so you were forced to interpret it in light of your longing for your old school of thought.Mishkat al-Masabih 35Hasan (Zubair `Aliza'i) No faith, my brother. So do we say no complete faith? What prevents you from saying this?
The questioner : The matter, my master, is not that I want to long for my old school of thought, but it is hearing and knowledge we took from the shaykhs, such asThe Shaykh : Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him).
The Shaykh : No, no, absolutely not. You are completely mistaken. Ibn Taymiyyah says this? I seek refuge in Allah.
The questioner : He says that faith is firm belief that corresponds to reality.
The Shaykh : It is okay, my brother, but I said I agree with you regarding this faith. But what about the faith that came in the Shari'ah? I give you my word, does not Ibn Taymiyyah say that faith increases and decreases?
The questioner : He says yes.
The Shaykh : So, my brother, may Allah bless you, you took something and left something.
The questioner : May Allah bless you, thank you.
The questioner : I do not wish to precede your eminence with an opinion, but I say that the concomitants of faith are what rise and fall, whereas faith in itself cannot decrease, for if it decreased, it would become disbelief.
The Shaykh : I tell you frankly that this is an error, for it contradicts the explicit text of the Noble Qur'an in more than one verse, where it states
and it increased their faith
فزادهم إيماناThose to whom hypocrites said, "Indeed, the people have gathered against you, so fear them." But it [merely] increased them in faith
الّذين قال لهم النّاس إنّ النّاس قد جمعوا لكم فاخشوهم فزادهم إيماناThe questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So if there are, may Allah bless you, numerous verses that explicitly state that faith increases, and anything that increases is subject to decrease, how can I conceive that a believer who believes in these texts then says, "I do not believe that faith increases and decreases," for if it decreased, it would mean he has exited the state of being a believer? If we agree, and praise be to Allah, that the creed is taken from the Book and the Sunnah, and this is a text—indeed, texts—in the Qur'an that faith increases and decreases, and the Sunnah confirms this, as in the hadith agreed upon by the two Shaykhs, which is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):
Faith has sixty-some branches, the highest of which is the testimony that there is no god but Allah, and the lowest of which is removing a harmful object from the road
الإيمان بضع و ستّون شعبة أعلاها شهادة أن لا إله إلاّ الله و أدناها إماطة الأذى عن الطّريقThe questioner : May Allah will it, we are close, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Is that so?
The questioner : Except that the hadith ... .
The Shaykh : You did not answer me.
The questioner : Yes, likewise.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, say it.
The questioner : Except that the hadith
Faith has seventy-some degrees, the highest of which is the testimony that there is no god but Allah, and the lowest of which is removing a harmful object from the road
الإيمان بضع و سبعون درجة أعلاها شهادة أن لا إله إلاّ الله و أدناها إماطة الأذى عن الطّريقSay, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
قل هو الله أحدThe Shaykh : Excuse me, you now understand the problem with you. You are speaking about the creed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : We are speaking of faith in the concept of Islam. The creed means, for example, a person believes in the existence of Allah; if a grain of doubt enters him, he is a disbeliever. That is what you mean.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But that is not the research. I am speaking with you not only with logic and reason, but with reason, logic, and the Shari'ah above our heads.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : So what is faith in the Shari'ah?
The questioner : Faith is firm affirmation that corresponds to reality based on evidence. That is what I know, I mean.
The Shaykh : Allow me, you know this, this is a cliché we know, but where did you get this from? Allow me, we just reminded you of some texts that faith increases and decreases, and you got rid of these Quranic arguments by saying faith is defined thus and so. This is only the logical, rational definition of faith, whereas the faith mentioned by Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has another attribute. Then you do not go far, and I do not think you said in your heart, when you added the word "completely" and we agreed to remove it, that you are saying that the believer's faith increased and its effect appeared in his action, but what did you say? Not completely. If these effects that appear in a person's action are among the effects of his faith, and if you want to research the topic logically and rationally, my brother, faith, as you know, is not a material thing. It is like this light; if you shine lights and lights in this place, the light accepts increase and accepts increase. So for example, when you hear news from a person you trust and you affirmed it, but this affirmation is subject to fluctuation, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes, if it is from other than the Infallible.
The Shaykh : It does not need a condition. I tell you a person, and you say Infallible. There is no Infallible now. Then you heard this news from another person. What happened in your heart regarding the affirmation that was before? Did it remain as it was?
The questioner : Affirmation also.
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : Affirmation also.
The Shaykh : You did not answer me.
The questioner : Affirmation, affirmation.
The Shaykh : No, no, that is not my question. I told you, did it remain as it was? Say yes, say no.
The questioner : Meaning it increased, you mean it increased from the previous one, yes, confirm.
The Shaykh : Yes, I mean it increased from the previous one, or not?
The questioner : Confirm.
The Shaykh : Okay, a third, fourth, tenth, and twentieth came to you.
The questioner : Confirm.
The Shaykh : This is the faith that increases, and conversely, decreases.
The questioner : May Allah bless you, O Shaykh, but I mean that faith linguistically and legally, do you or your eminence have a definition of faith other than the one you defined?
The Shaykh : Certainly.
The questioner : Please go ahead.
The Shaykh : The verses we mentioned.
The questioner : On my eye and head, but I want a definition so that I can apply the texts to it.
The Shaykh : My brother, faith, may Allah bless you, definitions are terminological matters. The important thing is that you, I, and every Muslim submit their heart to what Allah informed us of. As for the definition you put, recently we were in a discussion similar to this, and we said to one of them, "There is no dispute in terminology," "There is no dispute in terminology." So you put a definition, and another person can put another definition, but the important thing is the verse you know about the hearts of humans. What does it say about the faith of the believers? Does it accept increase or not? You must say yes, it accepts increase, because this is the Quranic text. Then the definition you were taught since your youth, you want to apply it to this Quranic text, not reverse the subject. You apply the Quranic text to the definition. If this text agrees with the definition in head and eye, we accept the text. And if it does not agree, we reject the text for the sake of the definition!! We are telling you now, where did you get this definition from? And I tell you, it is contrary to the Quranic text. The definition says faith does not accept increase, and that if a grain decreases from it, and I agree with you because you are speaking rationally, but the Shari'ah informs us of what we do not know, and it says that faith increases. So why do you not say what Allah (Mighty and Majestic) says? What stops you from that?
The questioner : The truth is that I say what Allah says and I do not contradict what Allah says, if Allah wills. What came in the definition of faith by the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) regarding its increase and decrease indicates that it is connected to action. So I say that if it is connected to action, then it increases and decreases; the action, I mean, that follows faith. And therefore the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) says:
The adulterer is not a believer at the moment when he is committing adultery, and the wine drinker is not a believer at the moment when he is drinking wine
لا يزني الزّاني حين يزني و هو مؤمن و لا يشرب الخمر شاربها حين يشربها و هو مؤمنThe Shaykh : May Allah inspire you with the argument against yourself.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : Did the fornicator commit disbelief?
The questioner : No, except in the moment when his connection to Allah left his mind.
The Shaykh : I am concerned with the exception. In that moment, did he commit disbelief?
The questioner : No. I mean, he distanced himself from faith in his action.
The Shaykh : My brother, you have brought the argument against yourself, and do not rush.
When (a person) an adulterer commits illegal sexual intercourse then he is not a believer at the time he is doing it
لا يزني الزّاني حين يزني و هو مؤمنThe questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And if you say that faith does not accept increase and decrease, even regarding this fornicator in that moment that he is not a believer. We do not say that. Because we say that faith increases and decreases. So if his faith had been complete, he would not have committed fornication, he would not have stolen, he would not have plundered, and so on. But if you say he is a disbeliever, he is a disbeliever, he is a disbeliever, you will not find a way to get out of this dilemma in which you have thrown yourself except by saying with the view of the people of the Sunnah and the community: "Faith is speech and action, it increases and decreases." It reaches a degree where if it decreases, it is gone, but not every decrease means it is gone. And now, this hadith is in fact one of the proofs of the people of the Sunnah and the community who say that faith increases and decreases. So what harms you if you leave that definition aside, and you know that this definition did not come in the Book of Allah nor in the hadith of the Messenger of Allah, but it is merely a term used by a group of Muslims, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So what harms you to leave this definition aside and to say what Allah says and what the Messenger of Allah says, so that you do not fall into such a predicament? And this predicament has examples, and many examples indeed. I am telling you now:
He who is not trustworthy has no faith, and he who does not keep his covenant has no religion.
لا إيمان لمن لا أمانة له ولا دين لمن لا عهد لهThe questioner : I say he is not a disbeliever.
The Shaykh : But he said there is no faith.
The questioner : That is, a part of the consequences of his faith has decreased.
The Shaykh : Why do you not say complete faith and incomplete faith, and whenever
The questioner : If it decreases, he commits disbelief.
The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah bless you, you are still not holding me accountable, and perhaps the group is now holding us accountable that we have digressed too much. You are still longing for your old school of thought: what is faith? My brother, this is faith. And as for the definition you brought, I say, for example, if I disbelieved in it, did I commit disbelief?
The questioner : No, of course you do not commit disbelief.
The Shaykh : But the one who denies the Qur'anic text commits disbelief.
The questioner: Correct.
The Shaykh : So what will they say? The one who does not want to see distressing dreams does not sleep between the graves. As long as this definition did not come to us from Allah nor from the Messenger, we leave it aside and we hold fast to the texts from the Book and the Sunnah, in which there is no problem, unless you long for your old school of thought. And we have now assumed that we leave this aside. Now I am asking you.
The questioner : Please go ahead.
The Shaykh : Is this definition agreed upon among the Muslims, or is it the opinion of one of the two schools of thought?
The questioner : By Allah, I do not know of anyone who disagreed on this definition.
The Shaykh: Allahu Akbar.
The questioner : I do not know of any scholarly status, and therefore I asked your eminence for another definition.
The Shaykh : Good, beautiful. Why do you not know? Do you not know that this is the school of the Maturidiyyah and the school of the Asha'irah differs from them, and that the Asha'irah say that faith increases and decreases, its increase by obedience and its decrease by disobedience? Why do you not know this?
The questioner : Why did you sit with us? To learn.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.
The questioner : I hope you will inform us.
The Shaykh : We thank you for your kindness in any case. I am surprised that you are a student, but why did you study one school of thought and leave the other? And this is very well known: the two schools of the Maturidiyyah and the Asha'irah are different from the school of the people of hadith. The Maturidiyyah, this is their opinion, this is their definition of faith. As for the Asha'irah, and with them the people of hadith, they say that faith increases and decreases, its increase by obedience and its decrease by disobedience. What do you want, a definition from me? I do not bring anything from myself. The Qur'an is sufficient for you, the hadith by which Allah has made you speak and by which the argument has been established against you is sufficient for you, and the hadith I have cited for you now is sufficient, so you were forced to interpret it in light of your longing for your old school of thought.
He who is not trustworthy has no faith
لا إيمان لمن لا أمانة لهThe questioner : The matter, my master, is not that I want to long for my old school of thought, but it is hearing and knowledge we took from the shaykhs, such asThe Shaykh : Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him).
The Shaykh : No, no, absolutely not. You are completely mistaken. Ibn Taymiyyah says this? I seek refuge in Allah.
The questioner : He says that faith is firm belief that corresponds to reality.
The Shaykh : It is okay, my brother, but I said I agree with you regarding this faith. But what about the faith that came in the Shari'ah? I give you my word, does not Ibn Taymiyyah say that faith increases and decreases?
The questioner : He says yes.
The Shaykh : So, my brother, may Allah bless you, you took something and left something.
The questioner : May Allah bless you, thank you.
Source
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The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.