Is it permissible to borrow gold for one's wife from the owner of a gold shop, and then return it so that the shop owner can sell it?
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The questioner : In the shop, whether it is me or my partner; meaning, he takes a piece of gold and his wife wears it, for example, for a day or two, and then returns it. Is this permissible or not permissible?
Another questioner : Her celebration...
The questioner : The shop owner.
The Shaykh : I think not. The question is clear.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But I want to say: others are more deserving of it than him.
Another questioner : It appears so at first glance.
The Shaykh : What does he do after he retrieves it? What does he do?
The questioner : He returns it to the "display case." It is normal.
The Shaykh : Yes, what does he do with this one?
The questioner : He sells it.
The Shaykh : He sells it. For how much?
The questioner : At the market price, at the current market price.
The Shaykh : Meaning, the price of new gold?
The questioner : The current market price. Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh : But the current market price, as I understand it, and I am certainly not an expert in trade, is that used goods have a price.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And those that have not been used have a price; is that correct?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, I judge myself by your testimony that I am understanding this point correctly.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : If that is the case, the previous question returns: at what price does he sell it?
The questioner : At the new price, at the current price, but there is a point.
The Shaykh : Before the point.
The questioner : We deal...
The Shaykh : Perhaps I have two points.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : Hmm.
The questioner : I want to clarify to you how we deal with people when they buy gold.
The Shaykh : No problem. Perhaps the answer will come to you automatically, as they say.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : So, since this piece has been used, it is supposed to be sold as used; that is one point. And the other: is it sold by its weight in gold, or with a markup?
The questioner : Yes, shall I answer?
The Shaykh : No.
The questioner : It is sold by weight, and the labor fee is added to it.
The Shaykh : We learned from you, or [The Shaykh laughs!].
The questioner : It is sold by its weight, with the labor fee added to it.
The Shaykh : And is this permissible according to the Shari'ah?
The questioner : By Allah, in what I asked, I asked you previously, and I learned that it is not permissible.
The Shaykh : Good; so this question was more appropriate than that one.
Another questioner : And why is it not permissible?
The questioner : Before that, why is it not permissible? We deal with customers who buy from us. If they want to return a piece of gold, and it is not damaged; meaning, not broken, not scratched, we take it back at the same price. We do not lose them anything. This is how we deal with people. We do not lose them anything at all. If it is taken and placed in the "display case" for exhibition, not broken, and not damaged.
The Shaykh : At the price you did not sell it for?
The questioner : At the price you bought it for; because we deal with people this way. For example, a person took a bracelet, and after a week he wants to return it and wants his money back. The bracelet is new, meaning, we look at it and it is new. This is a known thing. It becomes clear if it is damaged or not. If it is not damaged, and this has happened in front of me several times.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner : We return it to the "display case." We do not lose it, neither the labor fee nor the price.
The Shaykh : You set a limit of one week.
The questioner : No, I said approximately.
The Shaykh : Wait, wait, no problem. We will define it; because the word "approximately" is a political, stretchable word that can be stretched.
The questioner : ... If it stays for two months and I do not return it; the price might have gone up or down.
The Shaykh : And so, you know what you are saying. When you said one week.
The questioner : No, I say that within the limits of what we use for ourselves. When we take the piece, we borrow it for a day or two only, three days at most. It does not come to us for a month... we return it.
The Shaykh : No, that matter of yours has now become a thing of the past.
The questioner : That matter is finished.
The Shaykh : We may return to it, or we may not. Researching the more important may suffice us from researching the less important.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : You said: one week, then you corrected yourself and said: approximately.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Then this correction did not benefit you at all; because you said: after a month or two months, of course not.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, we take the example that clarifies the matter.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, after a month or two months, this piece of jewelry is returned to you; do you buy it at the price you sold it for? No.
The questioner : No, of course.
The Shaykh : So, for less.
The questioner : For less, yes.
The Shaykh : Good; so think about what we do in that case, whether in selling or buying, by his saying - peace be upon him - : Neither in selling did we sell gold for gold, nor in buying did we buy gold for gold, so usury does its work in both directions.
Another questioner : Here is a point - our Shaykh - explain it. Explain this point - our Shaykh - if you please?
The Shaykh : Meaning, a gold piece, a ring, a bracelet. If we put it on the scale, it equals, for example, two gold pounds, Ottoman or English or Saudi. The important thing is two gold pounds. So, this jewelry, which in our example is a ring or a bracelet, it is not permissible for the selling goldsmith to take more than its weight in gold. This is the meaning ofSahih al-Bukhari 2176. The way to avoid falling into this usurious transaction is that the person in need comes wanting a specific piece of a specific weight. What is the price of this piece of gold before it is crafted into jewelry? We say, for example, its price is two gold pounds. Good; how much do you want for the labor fee of this piece? For example, two paper dinars. This is permissible. Once this piece is sold, the merchant or goldsmith can no longer profit from it when he buys it back; because he has to buy it by its weight in gold, while these merchants are like a saw, going up and down, and they profit.
Another questioner : Like the way now, if a person comes and buys this thing from a piece of gold, he says to him: this is its price, five dinars, and the labor fee for its manufacture is two dinars.
The Shaykh : When he wants to make it for him, he says to him: its labor fee is two dinars. But if it is a ready-made piece, it is not permissible.
The questioner : He weighs it.
Another questioner : By weight.
The Shaykh : I understand. He weighs it and he wants to take its price only.
The questioner : And he adds the labor fee to it.
The Shaykh : But, when he wants to make it, he adds the labor fee to it.
The questioner : Good; what is...
The Shaykh : It is not made.
The questioner : He also paid a labor fee.
Another questioner : The shop owner - my Shaykh - this is a ready-made buyer. He sells ready-made.
The Shaykh : We are not concerned with the reality. We want to fix the reality.
Another questioner : Good; meaning, the goldsmith does not make it.
The Shaykh : He does not make it. He makes models for display. What do you want? You want this. We make it for you according to the weight you want.
The questioner : He has "catalogs."
The Shaykh : According to the weight you want, the weight of two, three, five dinars, whatever it is; whether it is a bracelet or not a bracelet.
Come on, please, to the food.
Another questioner : Yes, yes.
The questioner : Meaning, the way is that one sees the piece, then it is made for him, and the labor fee is added to it, by buying it and calculating it, saying: this is its price and this is its labor fee.
The Shaykh : First: it came in the answer.
The questioner : Because this requires that everyone have a factory. This is difficult.
The Shaykh : No, no, this is not correct.
Another questioner : We, for example, repair a galabiyyah, a jilbab, not gold or anything.
The Shaykh : No, it is the same thing.
The questioner : Gold needs...
The Shaykh : You... in this piece, you go to the factory owner, just as the man wants, you ask him, and you take a profit.
The questioner : Good; so why don't I make it ready-made? It is gone, it is gone.
The Shaykh : You are contradicting the text; because your Lord does not forbid anything except for a wisdom.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do you buy the piece of old jewelry for less than its weight in gold?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Good; do they do this or not?
The questioner : They do.
The Shaykh : So, we do not want to follow the reality. We want to fix the reality.
The Shaykh : The discussion should not be...
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And perhaps you... and you are studying the topic of hadiths and their jurisprudence. If you find something that contradicts what you heard, point it out to us, and may Allah reward you with good.
Another questioner : Her celebration...
The questioner : The shop owner.
The Shaykh : I think not. The question is clear.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But I want to say: others are more deserving of it than him.
Another questioner : It appears so at first glance.
The Shaykh : What does he do after he retrieves it? What does he do?
The questioner : He returns it to the "display case." It is normal.
The Shaykh : Yes, what does he do with this one?
The questioner : He sells it.
The Shaykh : He sells it. For how much?
The questioner : At the market price, at the current market price.
The Shaykh : Meaning, the price of new gold?
The questioner : The current market price. Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh : But the current market price, as I understand it, and I am certainly not an expert in trade, is that used goods have a price.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And those that have not been used have a price; is that correct?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, I judge myself by your testimony that I am understanding this point correctly.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : If that is the case, the previous question returns: at what price does he sell it?
The questioner : At the new price, at the current price, but there is a point.
The Shaykh : Before the point.
The questioner : We deal...
The Shaykh : Perhaps I have two points.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : Hmm.
The questioner : I want to clarify to you how we deal with people when they buy gold.
The Shaykh : No problem. Perhaps the answer will come to you automatically, as they say.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : So, since this piece has been used, it is supposed to be sold as used; that is one point. And the other: is it sold by its weight in gold, or with a markup?
The questioner : Yes, shall I answer?
The Shaykh : No.
The questioner : It is sold by weight, and the labor fee is added to it.
The Shaykh : We learned from you, or [The Shaykh laughs!].
The questioner : It is sold by its weight, with the labor fee added to it.
The Shaykh : And is this permissible according to the Shari'ah?
The questioner : By Allah, in what I asked, I asked you previously, and I learned that it is not permissible.
The Shaykh : Good; so this question was more appropriate than that one.
Another questioner : And why is it not permissible?
The questioner : Before that, why is it not permissible? We deal with customers who buy from us. If they want to return a piece of gold, and it is not damaged; meaning, not broken, not scratched, we take it back at the same price. We do not lose them anything. This is how we deal with people. We do not lose them anything at all. If it is taken and placed in the "display case" for exhibition, not broken, and not damaged.
The Shaykh : At the price you did not sell it for?
The questioner : At the price you bought it for; because we deal with people this way. For example, a person took a bracelet, and after a week he wants to return it and wants his money back. The bracelet is new, meaning, we look at it and it is new. This is a known thing. It becomes clear if it is damaged or not. If it is not damaged, and this has happened in front of me several times.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner : We return it to the "display case." We do not lose it, neither the labor fee nor the price.
The Shaykh : You set a limit of one week.
The questioner : No, I said approximately.
The Shaykh : Wait, wait, no problem. We will define it; because the word "approximately" is a political, stretchable word that can be stretched.
The questioner : ... If it stays for two months and I do not return it; the price might have gone up or down.
The Shaykh : And so, you know what you are saying. When you said one week.
The questioner : No, I say that within the limits of what we use for ourselves. When we take the piece, we borrow it for a day or two only, three days at most. It does not come to us for a month... we return it.
The Shaykh : No, that matter of yours has now become a thing of the past.
The questioner : That matter is finished.
The Shaykh : We may return to it, or we may not. Researching the more important may suffice us from researching the less important.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : You said: one week, then you corrected yourself and said: approximately.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Then this correction did not benefit you at all; because you said: after a month or two months, of course not.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, we take the example that clarifies the matter.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So, after a month or two months, this piece of jewelry is returned to you; do you buy it at the price you sold it for? No.
The questioner : No, of course.
The Shaykh : So, for less.
The questioner : For less, yes.
The Shaykh : Good; so think about what we do in that case, whether in selling or buying, by his saying - peace be upon him - :
Gold for gold, like for like, hand to hand - or he said - this for that
الذَّهب بالذَّهب مثلًا بمثل يدًا بيد - أو قال - هاءً بهاءAnother questioner : Here is a point - our Shaykh - explain it. Explain this point - our Shaykh - if you please?
The Shaykh : Meaning, a gold piece, a ring, a bracelet. If we put it on the scale, it equals, for example, two gold pounds, Ottoman or English or Saudi. The important thing is two gold pounds. So, this jewelry, which in our example is a ring or a bracelet, it is not permissible for the selling goldsmith to take more than its weight in gold. This is the meaning of
Do not sell gold for gold unless equal in weight
الذَّهب بالذهب مثلًا بمثلAnother questioner : Like the way now, if a person comes and buys this thing from a piece of gold, he says to him: this is its price, five dinars, and the labor fee for its manufacture is two dinars.
The Shaykh : When he wants to make it for him, he says to him: its labor fee is two dinars. But if it is a ready-made piece, it is not permissible.
The questioner : He weighs it.
Another questioner : By weight.
The Shaykh : I understand. He weighs it and he wants to take its price only.
The questioner : And he adds the labor fee to it.
The Shaykh : But, when he wants to make it, he adds the labor fee to it.
The questioner : Good; what is...
The Shaykh : It is not made.
The questioner : He also paid a labor fee.
Another questioner : The shop owner - my Shaykh - this is a ready-made buyer. He sells ready-made.
The Shaykh : We are not concerned with the reality. We want to fix the reality.
Another questioner : Good; meaning, the goldsmith does not make it.
The Shaykh : He does not make it. He makes models for display. What do you want? You want this. We make it for you according to the weight you want.
The questioner : He has "catalogs."
The Shaykh : According to the weight you want, the weight of two, three, five dinars, whatever it is; whether it is a bracelet or not a bracelet.
Come on, please, to the food.
Another questioner : Yes, yes.
The questioner : Meaning, the way is that one sees the piece, then it is made for him, and the labor fee is added to it, by buying it and calculating it, saying: this is its price and this is its labor fee.
The Shaykh : First: it came in the answer.
The questioner : Because this requires that everyone have a factory. This is difficult.
The Shaykh : No, no, this is not correct.
Another questioner : We, for example, repair a galabiyyah, a jilbab, not gold or anything.
The Shaykh : No, it is the same thing.
The questioner : Gold needs...
The Shaykh : You... in this piece, you go to the factory owner, just as the man wants, you ask him, and you take a profit.
The questioner : Good; so why don't I make it ready-made? It is gone, it is gone.
The Shaykh : You are contradicting the text; because your Lord does not forbid anything except for a wisdom.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do you buy the piece of old jewelry for less than its weight in gold?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Good; do they do this or not?
The questioner : They do.
The Shaykh : So, we do not want to follow the reality. We want to fix the reality.
The Shaykh : The discussion should not be...
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And perhaps you... and you are studying the topic of hadiths and their jurisprudence. If you find something that contradicts what you heard, point it out to us, and may Allah reward you with good.
Source
www.al-albany.com
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