A long question, the substance of which is that a man works in a company that deals in riba (usury or interest); should he leave his job there, given that he is able to invest a considerable sum in non-riba investments?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : Regarding a person in a position of responsibility at a company. This company has established a financial portfolio involving funds and a large sum of money. This person objected to entering into riba (usury or interest) transactions, and then he came to me to ask.
The Shaykh : Good.
The questioner : Should I stay in this company? Or do you think I should leave my position in this portfolio? From the discussion with him... regarding what is halal (lawful) and haram (forbidden), it became clear that with this man’s presence, he might be able to direct this portfolio, not entirely, but for example, forty-five million or forty million of the total portfolio amount, toward genuine investment avenues away from the rest of the amount, which is invested in financial instruments that may include some riba (usury or interest) aspects. So, is it obligatory for this person, who has this ability to influence this portfolio in this direction, while some aspects remain in investments where riba (usury or interest) is mixed in, to purify himself and leave this company/portfolio, or should he stay and strive to correct the course of this portfolio?
The Shaykh : There is no doubt that the answer must be that he leaves immediately once it becomes clear to him that this company deals in riba (usury or interest). But nevertheless, I have a question in my mind about what you mean by the word "portfolio" in your question. Does this company not deposit its money in the bank?
The questioner : The mixing of riba (usury or interest)...
The Shaykh : No, I am not asking you about that.
The questioner : It does not deposit its funds.
The Shaykh : So where does it keep its money? This large amount of money, which amounts to millions, where is it kept?
The questioner : Let us say it kept it in the Kuwaiti Public Treasury... from Kuwait.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, I do not like to look into hypotheticals; I prefer reality, because you are asking a question to address a real situation!
The questioner : It is the reality.
The Shaykh : And I want to know, what happened?
The questioner : No, it is currently in the formation stage, and he wants to know whether he should proceed or withdraw?
The Shaykh : Okay, but the question remains!
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : And the answer... is upon him. Since this matter is not yet a reality but will become one, will one of the characteristics of its realization be that this money, which amounts to millions, is deposited in the bank, or is it deposited elsewhere? The planning must include this point first, as the first stage. And what I imagine today is that it is not possible for a group, especially if their wealth is extensive, to gather their money with a person they trust; they must transfer this money to the bank. And if that is the case, then the Syrian saying applies: "Call it unemployment".
The questioner : ... the bank, this...
The Shaykh : My dear, I am saying that now the bank is specified... you need to tell me whether it keeps this for you for some partners, or in the bank!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : You frightened me with that word.
Another questioner: I heard your opinion on the issue of deferred sales; we use the word "funds" according to our concept of banks.
The Shaykh : Okay, good, this is fine. But when you deposit this money in the bank, and let us say, as you mentioned, we agree with you that it is in an Islamic bank, fine.
What does the Islamic bank do with these vast millions of funds? What does it do with them? Do you know that it deals with them in a Sharia-compliant manner?
The questioner : ... needs... detail.
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
The questioner : First, regarding these funds, it depends on the people in charge of these funds, and the entry of this person, if Allah wills, will influence this direction?
The Shaykh : My brother, I answered you on this, and I will answer you with another phrase: the end does not justify the means. We want to see if this work is based on a Sharia foundation or on a violation of the Shari'ah. If it is based on a violation of the Shari'ah, then your saying that he can change things over time does not justify him cooperating in evil!
The questioner : Meaning, you return to the foundation, the legal components of this?
The Shaykh : Of this company.
The questioner : And through a path that is not... and thus, if in your opinion, the basic components of this portfolio involve the possibility of entering into aspects?
The Shaykh : Of violation.
The questioner : It means.
The Shaykh : It never justifies that for him, never.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And you as well.
Another questioner: Peace be upon you.
The Shaykh : And peace be upon you.
The questioner : In the name of Allah, and all praise is due to Allah, and may peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah. Shaykh, in some questions regarding zakah (the obligatory alms).
The Shaykh : Yes.
The Shaykh : Good.
The questioner : Should I stay in this company? Or do you think I should leave my position in this portfolio? From the discussion with him... regarding what is halal (lawful) and haram (forbidden), it became clear that with this man’s presence, he might be able to direct this portfolio, not entirely, but for example, forty-five million or forty million of the total portfolio amount, toward genuine investment avenues away from the rest of the amount, which is invested in financial instruments that may include some riba (usury or interest) aspects. So, is it obligatory for this person, who has this ability to influence this portfolio in this direction, while some aspects remain in investments where riba (usury or interest) is mixed in, to purify himself and leave this company/portfolio, or should he stay and strive to correct the course of this portfolio?
The Shaykh : There is no doubt that the answer must be that he leaves immediately once it becomes clear to him that this company deals in riba (usury or interest). But nevertheless, I have a question in my mind about what you mean by the word "portfolio" in your question. Does this company not deposit its money in the bank?
The questioner : The mixing of riba (usury or interest)...
The Shaykh : No, I am not asking you about that.
The questioner : It does not deposit its funds.
The Shaykh : So where does it keep its money? This large amount of money, which amounts to millions, where is it kept?
The questioner : Let us say it kept it in the Kuwaiti Public Treasury... from Kuwait.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, I do not like to look into hypotheticals; I prefer reality, because you are asking a question to address a real situation!
The questioner : It is the reality.
The Shaykh : And I want to know, what happened?
The questioner : No, it is currently in the formation stage, and he wants to know whether he should proceed or withdraw?
The Shaykh : Okay, but the question remains!
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : And the answer... is upon him. Since this matter is not yet a reality but will become one, will one of the characteristics of its realization be that this money, which amounts to millions, is deposited in the bank, or is it deposited elsewhere? The planning must include this point first, as the first stage. And what I imagine today is that it is not possible for a group, especially if their wealth is extensive, to gather their money with a person they trust; they must transfer this money to the bank. And if that is the case, then the Syrian saying applies: "Call it unemployment".
The questioner : ... the bank, this...
The Shaykh : My dear, I am saying that now the bank is specified... you need to tell me whether it keeps this for you for some partners, or in the bank!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : You frightened me with that word.
Another questioner: I heard your opinion on the issue of deferred sales; we use the word "funds" according to our concept of banks.
The Shaykh : Okay, good, this is fine. But when you deposit this money in the bank, and let us say, as you mentioned, we agree with you that it is in an Islamic bank, fine.
What does the Islamic bank do with these vast millions of funds? What does it do with them? Do you know that it deals with them in a Sharia-compliant manner?
The questioner : ... needs... detail.
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
The questioner : First, regarding these funds, it depends on the people in charge of these funds, and the entry of this person, if Allah wills, will influence this direction?
The Shaykh : My brother, I answered you on this, and I will answer you with another phrase: the end does not justify the means. We want to see if this work is based on a Sharia foundation or on a violation of the Shari'ah. If it is based on a violation of the Shari'ah, then your saying that he can change things over time does not justify him cooperating in evil!
The questioner : Meaning, you return to the foundation, the legal components of this?
The Shaykh : Of this company.
The questioner : And through a path that is not... and thus, if in your opinion, the basic components of this portfolio involve the possibility of entering into aspects?
The Shaykh : Of violation.
The questioner : It means.
The Shaykh : It never justifies that for him, never.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And you as well.
Another questioner: Peace be upon you.
The Shaykh : And peace be upon you.
The questioner : In the name of Allah, and all praise is due to Allah, and may peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah. Shaykh, in some questions regarding zakah (the obligatory alms).
The Shaykh : Yes.