What is the dividing line between Islam and disbelief?

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : What is the dividing line between Islam and disbelief?

The Shaykh : The dividing line is that whoever denies what is known from the religion by necessity is a disbeliever. Whoever denies what is known from the religion by necessity is a disbeliever. However, this statement is only applied in an Islamic society. Is that clear? Why? Please, no problem, I see you are quite lively.

The questioner : ...

The Shaykh : In any case, what does "known from the religion by necessity" mean? It means that the ruling known from the religion by necessity is widespread among Muslims, with no difference between their scholars and the ignorant, between their readers and the illiterate; they all share in knowing that this thing is, for example, obligatory or forbidden. Let us give an example. Do you imagine a Muslim who is ignorant of the prohibition of intoxicants? I say I do not imagine it, but I will say I do imagine it. But before we say how you imagine it, do you imagine a Muslim who is ignorant of the prohibition of smoking? Here you would rush to say yes; most people do not know that smoking is forbidden. So if someone considers intoxicants permissible, we do not declare him a disbeliever. Sorry, if someone considers smoking permissible, we do not declare him a disbeliever. But if someone considers intoxicants permissible and says, "No, intoxicants are lawful, and this is a good drink," and so on, then we declare him a disbeliever. We return to my previous point, which is that he denied what is known from the religion by necessity. I say this makes one a disbeliever, and sometimes it does not, because the condition for declaring a disbeliever who denies what is known from the religion by necessity is that he lives in an Islamic environment, an Islamic environment that is permeated with the scent of knowledge, at least regarding these matters we say are known from the religion by necessity. Imagine now an American Black community that entered Islam in large numbers. But do you imagine that merely by entering Islam in large numbers, they knew what is forbidden and what is lawful, what is prohibited, and so on? Of course not. These people need a long time to live with the scholars and for the information to transfer from these scholars to the hearts of those peoples who entered the religion of Allah in large numbers, so that a new environment is formed for these peoples who newly entered Islam. Is it possible for us to imagine a man who embraced Islam in any of the lands of Islam, read perhaps a translation of the Qur'an, so faith entered his heart and he believed in Allah and His Messenger, but he still does not know that intoxicants are forbidden in the Qur'an; he did not understand this. We do not want you to be declared a disbeliever because you are drinking intoxicants and saying there is nothing wrong with it. On the contrary, when a Muslim lives in an Islamic society, and this Islamic society radiates correct knowledge, then at that time, if one of these individuals from this society denies something known from the religion by necessity, which is inherited by the son from his father and the father from his grandfather, and so on, then at that time he is declared a disbeliever because he denied what is known from the religion by necessity. And by contrast, naturally, other societies that have not been saturated with Islam.
And now I am giving you an example in the lands of Islam. You know, unfortunately, that many Muslims who testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and who pray and fast, and so on, but they have not yet understood tawhid (the oneness of Allah), neither positively nor negatively. They do not know that tawhid, when a Muslim understands it and truly believes in it, necessitates that he disavow what is other than it, that he testify that there is no god but Allah and disavow what is other than Allah (Mighty and Majestic). We find that many Muslims today circumambulate graves, make vows to them, call for aid from them other than Allah (Mighty and Majestic), and seek healing and request cure for their sick from them. This is well known in many Islamic countries, especially Egypt. You find the senior scholars interpreting all these misguidances and calling them by other names, calling them tawassul (seeking nearness to Allah through a means) to Allah, and drawing near to Allah, and so on, while it is shirk (associating partners with Allah) itself. The common people, these who live in a society of senior sheikhs who justify these actions for them, and they have no one to inform them that this is the shirk for which Allah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and fought the polytheists for, those polytheists who said: Many Muslims today repeat the words of the first polytheists. Why, brother, we draw near to Allah through them. The difference between the ignorant Muslims today and the polytheists of that time is that the polytheists were... on something of the nature of the Arabs, not a religion. The polytheists knew that what they were doing of calling upon the idols was worship of other than Allah (Mighty and Majestic). They knew this truth and acknowledged it, as Allah (Mighty and Majestic) related about them in the previous verse: ... and this is from the eloquence of the Qur'an. When it was said to them: Why do you worship them other than Allah (Mighty and Majestic)? They said: For their own sake, we do not worship them Now hold on, the Shaykh of al-Azhar says we do not worship them, and if he read the verse, it is because he no longer understands the Arabic language as the first people understood it. And they disbelieved with insight and knowledge, and therefore Allah the Exalted said about their like: As for the Muslims today, these who live in these lands and do not find the loud voices that clarify to them, as He said in the Qur'an: Rather, they find those who interpret their words and actions, their shirk and their misguidance for them. These are the ones we say have fallen into disbelief, but we do not see that we should declare them disbelievers because the argument of Allah has not been established against them. They denied something known from the religion by necessity, but at what time? At a time when the religion was lowly in book and Sunnah, when it was widespread among the people, then those who came after them neglected the knowledge and neglected the worship in its proper form and diverted it to other than Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). I hope I have clarified the statement that is made and is not absolute. The difference is that whoever denies what is known from the religion by necessity is a disbeliever, but if he denies matters that are specific to the knowledge of jurists and scholars, then he is not declared a disbeliever, but he is guided and directed to the truth. Please.

The questioner : We want the comprehensive and exclusive definition of Islam in which such an answer is included in the first place.

The Shaykh : My brother, Islam is different; he is asking by what one becomes a disbeliever.

The questioner : In terms of negation, meaning I intend that if we define the foundation of Islam, does this answer or the other issue not negate it?

The Shaykh : Perhaps your question needs clarification, because Islam is known by transmission, meaning that you testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and that you establish the prayer and give the zakah, and so on. And the testimony to the oneness of Allah necessitates what you know, and the testimony to the Messenger (peace be upon him) also necessitates what you know. So if the question is clarified.

The questioner : My teacher, meaning now when we define this as testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and giving the zakah, and so on, this may not be comprehensive and exclusive, because the one who abandons the prayer in our view is not declared a disbeliever, so he remains within the circle of Islam. So this is not considered a comprehensive definition because it included something, meaning it is not from the foundation of Islam in the sense that if he abandons it, he is not a disbeliever.

The Shaykh : Meaning, do you want to say that in terms of creed?

The questioner : Meaning, if we say Islam is belief only, and thus the other actions are complements to this Islam and bring its owner into faith, for example?

The Shaykh : My brother, you know that Islam is the outward matter and faith is the matter of the heart. So, any person living in a Muslim country, if he wants to have the rights of Muslims, he must testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and then he must adhere to the rulings of Islam, either all of them or some of them, according to the known details. However, a person may be a Muslim outwardly and a disbeliever inwardly, just as is the case with the hypocrites; his Islam does not benefit him in any way. So, if the issue is one of disbelief and faith, the issue is related to faith, not to Islam. Therefore, whoever denies in his heart what is part of Islam is a disbeliever. But he may pray and fast. We say that outwardly he is a Muslim, but when it appears to us that he has denied something, there are known details in the books of knowledge. If there is an Islamic ruling, this person who has denied what merits disbelief is brought forward. He is given the opportunity to repent; if he repents, well and good, otherwise he is killed. So here there are two things: outward Islam and inward faith. This inward faith is what saves one with Allah the Exalted. As for outward Islam, it saves one from the sword here in this world only, but it does not save one from the eternal punishment in the Hereafter, as long as he was concealing his disbelief and displaying his Islam. In any case, you are going around the word "Jami'." Around which point is this word "Jami'" that you are asking about? Because everyone clarifies their question.

The questioner : Correct, meaning the term Islam... and this term is not negated by the other scriptural evidences for it. We say this because we are influenced by the atmosphere of the discussion regarding the issue of disbelief and faith and the like. When they want to know about Islam, they say Islam is: performing all the obligatory acts and abstaining from all the forbidden acts. We say to them: this is what is meant by Islam; any negation takes one out of Islam. So I want the term Islam, the definition of Islam, such that any negation of it takes one out of it. Is this question this precise, or...?

The Shaykh : No, the question is clear now.

The questioner: It is clear.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner: All right.

The Shaykh : But the answer returns to the previous one.

The questioner: It is the same thing.

The Shaykh : It is known that we have nothing.

The questioner : That Islam is also just this; it does not mean the term faith, because Islam is a term for outward actions...

The Shaykh : Meaning the answer returns to the same... the question returns to the same previous answer: whoever denies in his heart what is known from the religion by necessity, that is disbelief. That is leaving Islam. As for one who did not perform Hajj, one who did not pay zakah, and so on, we look at his creed: does he believe in these obligations as a law revealed from Allah? Yes, does he acknowledge that? Then he is not declared a disbeliever, but he is an open sinner. He may be killed, and he may be exposed to the sword.

The questioner: Correct.

The Shaykh : As is known, but when is this exposure? When there is a ruling of Islam. As you know from our many, very many lectures, that disbelief is of two types: practical disbelief and creedal disbelief. The one that takes one out of the religion is creedal disbelief.

The questioner : Yes, without a doubt.

The Shaykh : So this Islam, which is scriptural rulings, if one denies something of it in his heart, he has committed disbelief, whatever that thing is, provided that he knows that it is part of Islam.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Therefore, we stipulate that it be known from the religion by necessity. Because if a person says, "Smoking is not forbidden for me," and I am certain that it is forbidden, but I cannot say that he is being stubborn and that he considers what Allah has forbidden to be permissible, unlike if he said, "Intoxicants are lawful, they are not forbidden." In that case, there is room for declaring him a disbeliever.

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : So what you are going around and calling Islam is not Islam; it is faith, because it relates to the souls and the heart. Because Islam relates to actions that a non-Muslim may also do, as they did before. Meaning, they pray, and in reality, they are showing off to people with their prayer. The disbelief that is leaving the religion does not occur except with something settled in the heart. But between him and Allah, if he says, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," but our Lord knows that he is a liar, he was able to deceive people and mislead them, but with Allah he is in the lowest depth of the Fire.

The questioner : My teacher, excuse me, a continuation...

The Shaykh : No, allow me, let the group... meaning, this time is for them.