The Discussion on Faith and Islam.

The Shaykh : So, for that reason, we do not mix up the discussion on faith and Islam. We are discussing faith, meaning: is this person saved with Allah, who knows the unseen and the hidden, or is he not saved? As for this one who mocked the verses of Allah, he may have had a good intention, like the polytheists we see who call upon other than Allah for help and so on. The scholars come to defend them and say, "Their intention is good," and so on. Whether their intention is good or bad, that is his account with Allah. But this act, as far as we are concerned, is disbelief. We do not approve of it and we do not accept it. So the ruler may kill a person for the disbelief that has become apparent from him.

The questioner : As for his ruling, it is not the final ruling.

The Shaykh : With Allah. This ruling is with Allah.

The questioner : But he kills him because disbelief has become apparent from him.

The Shaykh : Now, the story that happened in some of the battles when a Companion killed a polytheist.

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Is that not so? He was under the blow of a sword and said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah," and he finished him off... What is his ruling with Allah?

Those present : ... .

The Shaykh : But despite that, he was killed. But what did the Messenger of Allah say to him? , It means that his faith and his disbelief are tied to his heart. You do not know his heart. And you, now, when you say that his ruling is that he is a believer, I do not agree. He is a Muslim. This disbeliever, when he saw his situation under the sword's blow, said, "There is no god but Allah." This is a Muslim. I do not say of him that he is a believer, nor do I say he is a disbeliever. Why? Because it is possible that, truly, at that moment, the greatness of Islam became apparent to him. For example, like what happened between the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and "Rakanah" when 'Umar wrestled with him. No one put his back on the ground except this man, who is not known for wrestling with the Messenger of Allah, and so on. When he saw this strength beyond human level, he said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah." So it is possible that that polytheist, when he saw an ordinary man from these Arabs overpower him and there was only a hair's breadth between him and the sword, said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah" sincerely from his heart. If that is the case, then he is a believer, and Allah (Mighty and Majestic) will admit him to Paradise. Or perhaps he said it out of fear of being killed. So who judges that he said it for this reason or that reason? The Lord of the Worlds (Glorified and Exalted is He). As for the Islamic side, the Islamic ruling, have you heard what the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said to him? ; No; so you are mistaken in killing him.

Another questioner : Now, this is the principle that says... the following principle: that this person from whom an act of disbelief has become apparent, it is our right to deal with him, as long as disbelief has become apparent from him, on the basis that he is a disbeliever in appearance, and our dealing with him is on the basis of disbelief until it becomes clear to us otherwise?

The Shaykh : ... I think I answered you yesterday, or in a different gathering. In any case, a person, as a human being, even disbelievers sometimes do good deeds and sometimes do bad deeds. So the one who wants to judge this person—we are now talking about a non-Muslim—the one who wants to judge him as good or evil, how does he judge him? He must be closer to him than his shadow and make a precise calculation of the types of his good deeds and bad deeds, and perform an operation of addition and subtraction to see which is more, and he prevails with the more. He says: this is good or bad. This is for whom? For the disbeliever, any disbeliever.
The Shaykh: The Muslim, without doubt, no matter who he is, no matter who he is, is better than a hundred thousand disbelievers. Do we not imagine that an act indicating his Islam and his faith will come from him? Or is he empty, meaning no act comes from him except disbelief? Whether it is practical disbelief or creedal disbelief, but we see that disbelief has come from him. Does no faith come from him? ...
...
Yes?

The questioner : ... He says: There is no god but Allah.

The Shaykh : Yes, correct, he says: There is no god but Allah.

The questioner : And the non-Muslims say: There is no god but Allah. And I have a Christian who said it more than once in one day.

The Shaykh : Very good.

The questioner : So this is the apparent.

The Shaykh : I will tell you now... We are discussing the topic of Islam, are you with us? Now, this one who said it next to you, and you know he is a polytheist, a disbeliever, a Jew, a Christian, and so on, he said: There is no god but Allah; is that not so?

The questioner : She does it herself?

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : Alone, or: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

The Shaykh : Suppose it is complete: There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; because the example is like that, he means, he does not want him to have said: There is no god but Allah without Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, otherwise what do you want until we answer you on what you want?

Another questioner : He reminded me of something. In fact, he said: There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

The Shaykh : Good!! Now we say: if there is an Islamic ruling, what will be his ruling? You judge now, what will be his ruling?

The questioner : His ruling will be...

The Shaykh : Now, if he returns to worshipping idols and 'Isa ibn Maryam and so on, what will Islam rule for him?

The questioner : Apostasy.

The Shaykh : So now, initially, you have to judge him as a Muslim; so what about the one who is Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Badr ibn and so on, and you hear him testify that there is no god but Allah, at least more than that Christian you heard once, and then he may pray, even if only on 'Id or in Ramadan and so on. So what about the comparison? The important thing is that we know by observation that the most wicked person from whom no open declaration of disbelief has appeared—if he said: no religion, no Muhammad, no this, that is it, he mocked the religion, everything came out of the religion, like a hair coming out of dough, that is not what we are talking about here—but you see him sometimes pray, sometimes not pray, he does not pray all the time but he fasts Ramadan; for example, and this type is all present among us. So this person, we have seen from him an act of disbelief... an act of disbelief, for example, leaving the prayer is disbelief. We have seen from him an act of Islam, which is fasting. Here is Islam... What do we do now? Do we prevail Islam over him or apostasy? It is not permissible to judge him as an apostate; because apostasy has not become apparent from him. Practical disbelief has become apparent from him; according to the previous discussion, which I hope we agreed on, practical disbelief has become apparent from him, which does not justify us at all to attach him to the polytheists, and to make him one of the apostates. In that case, he is, on one side, a disbeliever in practice, and on the other side, he has become a Muslim in practice. And the... likewise, it is obligatory that we deal with him as Muslims. He is among those about whom it is said, as he (peace and blessings be upon him) said in some of the hadiths: You know this hadith.
The Shaykh: So, as if we—in what I hope, if Allah wills—are in agreement—also—that these open sinners, from whom practical disbelief comes on one side, and practical Islam comes on the other side, these must be counted as Muslims. But their matter is with Allah, as he (peace and blessings be upon him) said: , so their account is with Allah. Why? Because it is possible he said it, like the Companion Usamah said: "He only said it out of fear." It is possible—for example—that he is displaying Islam out of hypocrisy, and this hypocrisy existed in the time of the Prophethood, let alone in a time other than the time of the Prophethood.
The Shaykh: So the answer: how do we deal with him? We deal with him as a Muslim. But our Lord says to you: , we deal with him as a Muslim but we do not befriend him. Do you see, O... This comes from the side of dealing with the good or the bad. This is the answer to what you asked.