If al-Bukhari says of a man (his hadith is munkar) and Abu Zur'ah says of him (his hadith is weak), is his hadith valid as a corroborating narration or a supporting chain?

The Shaykh : Please, one last question.

The questioner : I have not been able to ask since yesterday.

The Shaykh : No problem.

The questioner : Regarding this, O Shaykh, for example, if al-Bukhari says of a man: "His hadith is munkar," and Abu Zur'ah al-Razi says of him: "His hadith is weak," is this man one whose hadith can be used as a corroborating narration?

The Shaykh : The answer in a legal dialectical manner: which of the two expressions contains more knowledge?

The questioner : I will answer. Both contain more knowledge.

The Shaykh : No, two opposites cannot coexist.

The questioner : Because al-Bukhari...

The Shaykh : Who said of a man that he is trustworthy?

The questioner : There is no...

The Shaykh : Who do I mean? A man said of a narrator that he is trustworthy, and another said of him that he has poor memory. Which of the two statements contains more knowledge?

The questioner : Also both, because this... I say, O Shaykh...

The Shaykh : No, you cannot say that. Just relax a little. Let me refine the question. A hafiz said of a narrator that he is trustworthy, and another hafiz of the same rank, meaning of the rank of the first hafiz, said of the narrator whom the first one deemed trustworthy that he has poor memory. Which of the two statements do we adopt, and on which do we rely?

The questioner : If they are of the same rank...

The Shaykh : Do not say "if they are," I have exempted you from saying "if," because I told you they are of the same rank.

The questioner : There is no doubt that the criticism (jarh) takes precedence here, because the one who said he has poor memory has more knowledge.

The Shaykh : Now you have returned to what...

The questioner : No, no, I am telling you, and also someone might say that the one who deemed him trustworthy also has more knowledge.

The Shaykh : No, and you are not a debater. What do you and others have to do with saying "someone might say"? I am asking you. If there is another person present who says something, each has his answer. This is the dialectic, and this is what we were commanded to cut off speech with. So, which of the two statements has more knowledge?

The questioner : There is no doubt the one who criticized him has more knowledge.

The Shaykh : Now, when al-Bukhari said of a narrator: "His hadith is munkar," and Abu Zur'ah said: "His hadith is weak," which of the two statements contains more knowledge?

The questioner : In my opinion, both contain more knowledge.

The Shaykh : Your saying "in my opinion" is a tautology, because I am not speaking to this one or that one, but to you.

The questioner : Both of them.

The Shaykh : How can both be the case, my brother? Let me refine the expression for you. We learned in some lands: "If you do not come with me, come with me." Okay. Two hafiz of the same class, whose criticism and vindication are trusted, etc. One said of the narrator that he is weak, and the other said of him that he is very weak. Which of the two statements contains more knowledge?

The questioner : The one who said "very weak." But the narrator's statement, I am telling you, there is a difference between the two expressions: they said "weak" and "munkar hadith."

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you. I am asking to build what I am asking, and you are moving on. No, if the one who said of the narrator "very weak" has more knowledge than the one who said of the narrator "weak." Now we return to Abu Zur'ah's statement about the narrator: "His hadith is weak," and al-Bukhari's statement: "His hadith is munkar." Are they equal in criticism? With the same strength?

The questioner : No, they are not equal.

The Shaykh : Good. Which of the two expressions is stronger in criticism?

The questioner : There is no doubt, Abu Zur'ah's statement.

The Shaykh : Stronger in criticism?

The questioner : Stronger in criticism.

The Shaykh : From here you have been given the answer. Does "his hadith is weak" equal my earlier statement, my statement that the one who said of the narrator "very weak"?

The questioner : It does not equal it.

The Shaykh : Does it equal the first one's statement "weak"?

The questioner : No, it does not equal it.

The Shaykh : It does not equal "weak" nor "very weak"?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : So what does it equal?

The questioner : "His hadith is weak" is stronger in criticism than "very weak," because he might be a liar.

The Shaykh : Strange. And "very weak," according to your expression, does not mean he is a liar?

The questioner : I have not come across a man who was said to be "very weak" and also called a liar. Allah knows best.

The Shaykh : Strange. This statement is not permissible, my brother. You have not come across a man who was said to be trustworthy and yet also called a liar.

The questioner : There is no doubt, no.

The Shaykh : Okay, I am telling you, may Allah forgive you.

The questioner : Regarding the men, we have not come across this thing.

The Shaykh : Okay, the important thing is: "His hadith is weak." Do you have a definition of this term?

The questioner : It is close to being a liar, meaning.

The Shaykh : Is this Abu Zur'ah's specific terminology, or is it the general terminology of all the imam hafiz?

The questioner : By Allah, there is no doubt that the expression differs from one imam to another.

The Shaykh : Good. So you seem to mean that the expression "his hadith is weak," if it comes from Abu Zur'ah, has this meaning. If you say yes, how do you know?

The questioner : This, without doubt, comes through supporting chains and induction, close to this...

The Shaykh : O Shaykh, may Allah guide you. I am not lying to you, but this induction that you did, and you are cautious in your saying "close," what is the degree of this closeness? For example, do you memorize a hundred narrators about whom Abu Zur'ah said "his hadith is weak" in each of them, and then you compared this statement of his about these hundred with the statements of others, and found that they say "munkar hadith" or "very weak," etc., and you reached this induction?

The questioner : No, that is not so.

The Shaykh : This is what I am saying. We return to the hadith, it has branched out a lot, but the point is: do you know that al-Bukhari's statement about a narrator "his hadith is munkar" is one of the strongest types of weakening?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, you know this. And is it also like Abu Zur'ah's statement "his hadith is weak"?

The questioner : I did not understand the last question.

The Shaykh : I did not understand the second sentence, or is it also in al-Bukhari?

The questioner : The second one.

The Shaykh : Meaning, Abu Zur'ah's statement about a narrator "his hadith is weak," is it known to you that it means that everyone about whom it is said "his hadith is weak" is at the extreme degree of weakness in his view? As is the case with al-Bukhari regarding those about whom he said "his hadith is munkar"?

The questioner : Yes, yes, because Abu Zur'ah is not among the strict ones; he is among the moderate, balanced ones in criticism.

The Shaykh : Wait for me. How did we know that al-Bukhari's statement "his hadith is munkar" means that the one about whom he said "his hadith is munkar" is at the lowest type of degrees of weakness? From here, or from the statements of our imams?

The questioner : From the statements, of course.

The Shaykh : Is it the same for "his hadith is weak"?

The questioner : I do not remember this thing.

The Shaykh : Is it not enough for you as a difference that you...

The questioner:..

The Shaykh : That you... No problem, I understand your intention, but you must certainly conduct a comparison.

The questioner : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh : Because the difference is great between what I deduce alone and what I have understood from the previous imams. And each one of the people present now will say, "I rely more on what the predecessors understood than what so-and-so understood." So now, when you conduct a comparison between al-Bukhari's statement "his hadith is munkar" and your understanding of Abu Zur'ah's expression "his hadith is weak," it means you compared your understanding with the understanding of those people, and this is a great difference.

The questioner : There is no doubt.

The Shaykh : Okay, so I want to say: if we assume for the sake of argument that Abu Zur'ah's word "his hadith is weak" means severe weakness, and I am telling you frankly that I do not know this, meaning that if Abu Zur'ah says "his hadith is weak," it means severe weakness. I do not know this. It might be so, and it might not be so. But we are more confident that al-Bukhari's statement "his hadith is munkar" means severe weakness than if we saw your opinion about those about whom it is said "his hadith is weak." In that case, the previous question returns, which I usually say in such cases, may Allah have mercy on him, because we did not obtain his answer. It is: if "his hadith is weak" means, in your concept, severe weakness, and in the scholars' concept, "munkar hadith" in al-Bukhari means severe weakness, then the result, with some fabrication and leniency, is that they are equal.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And it is not as you said before that the one about whom it is said "his hadith is weak" has more knowledge, correct?

The questioner: Correct.

The Shaykh : But if we note the difference I mentioned to you earlier, it is that the one about whom al-Bukhari said "his hadith is munkar" has more knowledge than the one about whom Abu Zur'ah said "his hadith is weak." Please.

The questioner : Okay, you have not answered the question, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I do not think so.

The questioner : Is he to be used as a corroborating narration? This man.

The Shaykh : Who is he?

The questioner : The one about whom it is said "his hadith is munkar"?

The Shaykh : The one about whom it is said "his hadith is munkar" in general, or the one about whom al-Bukhari said it?

The questioner : The one about whom al-Bukhari said it.

The Shaykh : No, he is not to be used as evidence, he is not to be cited as a corroborating narration.

The questioner : Well, Shaykh, sometimes a man passes by, for example, Ma'd ibn Sulayman. I considered him a witness, I don't know if you remember or not?

The Shaykh : No, I don't remember. Just finish your story. Is there anything other than al-Bukhari's statement that the hadith is denounced?

The questioner : And Abu Zur'ah's statement that the hadith is weak, as it is in al-Tahdhib.

The Shaykh : Well, so I am permitted to have understood this hadith to mean that it is weak, and I was not reassured by al-Bukhari's statement that it is severely weak.

The questioner : So I considered him a witness.

The Shaykh : Yes, that is the way it is, yes.