Is the existing disagreement between Jamil al-Rahman and the parties the same as the disagreement among the Salafis (i.e., the disagreement in creed)?

The Shaykh : There is something else, if you permit. Based on your knowledge and your interaction there with these groups you mentioned, do you believe that the disagreement between, for example, Jamil al-Rahman and the other parties in Afghanistan is the same disagreement that exists among the Salafi groups you referred to? Or is there a difference? It is true that the Salafis differ, and the disagreement that always occurs is due to what you pointed out, which is desire (hawa), and may Allah protect us from it. Do you believe that there is a disagreement in creed among the Salafis as there is between Jamil al-Rahman and the other parties? No, you pointed out that the cause is desire, and unfortunately, we cannot deny this, for it has spread throughout all Islamic lands, except for those individuals whom Allah wills. But the matter that matters for us to know is when you gave the example that the disagreement which I and every Muslim deny, which currently exists between the Islamic parties in Afghanistan, you said this disagreement exists among the Salafis themselves. We cannot deny this, but what matters for every Muslim to know is: is this disagreement among the Salafis the same disagreement that exists between Jamil al-Rahman and the others in Afghanistan? That is, is the disagreement among the Salafis in creed, or is the creed sound but they differ due to control and leadership, as you pointed out? Then there is another disagreement among the Islamic parties present in Afghanistan: desire and something else, or are they the same?

The questioner : In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. In truth, the real causes of disagreement reduce to psychological factors initially. There is a psychological complex. There is something among the Afghan people that we call a complex; they call it a complex. If you take a person’s complex, they use the same expression, it can never be resolved. This is part of their psychological nature. The psychological complex is fundamentally the basis, and if you take this complex, it is difficult to erase it with much kindness. It requires mountains of kindness to erase this complex. So this is the basic cause. The second cause, for example, the Nuristanis formed a state they called the Islamic Revolutionary State of Afghanistan in Nuristan. Nuristan is a very poor and weak valley. I do not know; perhaps desire adorned it for him, and he said—and this is a statement I swear to Allah he told me in more than one session with the Amir of the state, the sameThe Shaykh : Muhammad Afsal was originally in the association with Professor Rabani. Then he demanded things from the association, and the professor ignored him, so he went out to the valley and formed his state. He says: It is obligatory upon every person on earth and all these scholars to come here and pledge allegiance to me for the caliphate. This is his conviction in this. He says, “We have established the rule of Islam on earth and formed this state in this valley.” The mere fact that he says this immediately returns to the psychological factor. The group of Jamil al-Rahman demands that he come and pledge allegiance to him. How can Jamil al-Rahman pledge allegianceThe Shaykh : to Muhammad Afsal? This cannot happen because the soul ofThe Shaykh : Jamil al-Rahman wants to have an independent organization. The proof is when the mujahideen said, “Now we want to hold elections,” the government of the mujahideen made a decision because he has a part of the governorship, and there are other organizations. So he stood up and opposed the decision of the mujahideen government, held elections, and issued decisions, saying, “We have the governor of the province, the Amir of the province, the council of the body, and so on,” which caused a collision. The matter is a matter, Professor, of leadership and power. Then, to pass this off, they say, “These are innovators” and “these are such-and-such.” You find that the basis of the whole problem is that we want an organization, we want elections, we want leadership. Then you find them dressing it up in this clothing. I am speaking in an abstract way, if Allah wills, knowing that according to what I have observed, the people of the madhhab within Afghanistan have actually done a lot to stoke this spirit, the spirit of hostility. In many cases, the disagreement began among the people of hadith, but the one who worked to stoke this fire was the people of the madhhab through their ignorance, and then

Another questioner : with the complex

The questioner : with the complex, and then not by external media pressure on them. For now, Radio BBC and the mujahideen call it the devil, the BBC devil, the British broadcast. So if the British broadcast and the Moscow broadcast and the Voice of America and the Kabul broadcast speak daily about the Wahhabis and the criminals and the agents of Saudi Arabia, and so on, then this has stoked this spirit and helped it. So the people of the madhhab look at the people of hadith. I am speaking about the general, about the ignorant.

The Shaykh : I think you have strayed far from answering the question.

The questioner : Please, remind me.

The Shaykh : I asked you, may Allah reward you, is the existing disagreement among the people of hadith a madhhab disagreement or a political one? And is the existing disagreement in Afghanistan only political? Yes.

The questioner : No. Yes, the existing disagreement among the people of hadith is political.

The Shaykh : That is it.

The questioner : The existing disagreement between the people of hadith and the people of the madhhab is political.

The Shaykh : That is not my question either. The same groups, the parties, other than the people of hadith.

The questioner : The existing disagreement between the people of hadith and the people of the madhhab?

The Shaykh : No, that is not it.
Al-Halabi : The Shaykh : He is asking about a third picture: the disagreement between the other groups among themselves.

The Shaykh : Between some of them and others.
Al-Halabi : Other than the people of hadith, yes.

The questioner : The existing disagreement among the mujahideen groups of the people of the madhhab, you mean, is also initially a political disagreement. It is a political disagreement based on the assumption of power. Initially, the root of the problem, Professor, is...

The Shaykh : But we understood from you what we took as good news when you said that they adopt the correct creed, and you gave as an example the creed of the oneness of worship, the oneness of lordship, and the attributes. This is not adopted by the known madhahib today.
Al-Halabi : There are the other groups.

The Shaykh : Not just there.
Al-Halabi : In general, besides...

The Shaykh : Ah

The questioner : How do they not adopt it? What did you understand?

The Shaykh : The known madhahib followed by tradition, the Hanafis, the Shafi'is, the Malikis, and the Hanbalis, except for those who are called Wahhabis, these do not adopt this correct creed of dividing tawhid into the oneness of worship, the oneness of lordship, and the attributes. That is, which people are we talking about in general? And at their head are their scholars and shaykhs. They do not adopt this creed. Any people, but there are exceptions in every people. So when you mentioned this, and we considered it a good omen that they adopt this creed which we call the Salafi creed, my question now is: among this Afghan people, including its parties and leaders, is there no madhhab disagreement among them?

The questioner : I understood, I understood now. In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. I understood, Professor, that I am saying that the creed of these mujahideen, the organizations of the mujahideen, is like the creed of the Wahhabis. No, I did not intend this. I intended that the creed of these people is like the creed of Imam Abu Hanifa. Most of them are Hanafis, with a small group who are not Hanafis. So it is like the creed of the Hanafis, which is what I understand from the al-Tahawi creed. And here is the difference between it and the Wahhabi creed. This is what I intended when I said that their creed means that they do not have clear deviation and they do not have clear disbelief.

The Shaykh : No, this is another matter as well.
Al-Halabi : ... political.

The Shaykh : First, may Allah reward you. You use the word Wahhabi, as if you, without offense, are yielding to this political usage. So we ask you not to use this word.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : I ask you not to use this word because...
Abu Malik: Regarding our homelands, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you. This word, as you surely know, has a political connotation. For example, when we, the people of the Sunnah, refer to the Shi'ah, the Shi'ah do not object to our calling them Shi'ah, do they?

The questioner : Of course. They take pride in being Shi'ah.

The Shaykh : If you please, but when you refer to a group on earth that adopts the correct creed in tawhid (the oneness of Allah) as Wahhabi, they reject this term. First, they consider it a form of insulting each other with bad names. Second, they do not claim this term; in their creed, they claim to follow the Salaf (the earliest generations), as you know. This is first. This is a word specifically about the term "Wahhabi," so I ask you not to use it, because it has a specific connotation among people. You have surely read, recently or in the past, that the disbelievers still use this term. This term is an old Turkish political rumor. But those who are called by it reject it and disavow it, especially given its Arabic connotation. "Wahhabi" is a nisbah (attribution) to what? It is an attribution to al-Wahhab, and al-Wahhab means, in terms of Arabic style, boasting, i.e., attributing oneself to Allah al-Wahhab (the Giver of all good). But politics is such that it even reverses the connotation of words that have correct meanings into bad concepts, and vice versa. Just as they call riba (usury or interest) "profit" and dancing and the like "fine arts," and so on. We do not want a Muslim, especially one with awareness and culture, to use this word, which is a political term that no group on earth adopts at all. That is one point. The other is that you gave us good news, and I hope it is true, that the Hanafis adopt the creed of tawhid in its three divisions based on the al-Tahawi creed. This is correct in the al-Tahawi creed, but it is not the creed of the Hanafi Muslims today. So we are asking now: do the Afghan Hanafis, in their capacity as Hanafis, adopt this correct tawhid? This is a great piece of good news.

The questioner : I will answer.

The Shaykh : Please go ahead.

The questioner : In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
Abu Malik: There is a comment on al-Mashi.

The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Abu Malik: During my stay in the Holy City of Madinah, there was a Shaykh named al-Bukhari, whose name was Mahmud al-Tarazi. He had a circle in the Prophet's Mosque, and people came from Ta'if to gather with the Bukharis. He taught the tafsir (Qur'anic exegesis) of the Qur'an. The man was Hanafi in madhhab (school of jurisprudence) and was very fanatical about his madhhab. So one of our young brothers said to him: "O Shaykh, are you Hanafi?" He said: "Yes, and I take pride in my Hanafism." The young man said to him: "Do you think that in following the Hanafi madhhab, it is right and the others are wrong?"

The Shaykh : Of course.
Abu Malik: He said: "If it were not for this, I would not follow it. I follow the Hanafi madhhab because it is right, and because Abu Hanifah is the founder of this madhhab, and it is what Muslims in general must adhere to." He said to him: "Well, if you say that, and that..."The Shaykh : Abu Hanifah (may Allah have mercy on him) does not err in his madhhab, why do you not believe what Abu Hanifah believed and adopt what Abu Hanifah used to believe? So what was his answer? He said: "Abu Hanifah was correct in the branches (furu') and erred in the principles (usul)."

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar. Well, please go ahead.

Another questioner : In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. We return to the beginning of the organization of the Afghan jihad in 1973. First, we must return to what Brother Jamal passed over, which is the mindset of these young men who carried out this jihad. These are, first, the Afghan jihad, or the Afghans, as you kindly said, my lord. There are people of the Sunnah and the community, and there are Shi'ah. I saw how there is nothing between them but Hanafis and Shi'ah, meaning the people of the Sunnah are Hanafis. But in these recent eras, twenty or thirty years ago, there was a shift from the religious academic certificates that were graduated from al-Azhar and Saudi Arabia. These certificates did not adopt anything other than the creed of the Salaf (the earliest generations), the people of the Sunnah and the community, and the Salaf. So all of these, under the leadership of Professor Mustafa Niazi, when he first formed the Islamic work for the people of the Sunnah and the community and the organization in the university in the Faculty of Sharia, and he was its dean in Kabul, do you see, my lord, this man formed it on the creed of the people of the Sunnah and the community, on a pure Salafi creed. They have no madhhabism, do you see? As for madhhabism, it spreads among the people who are lower in rank in knowledge, do you see, among the common people. So Professor Sayyaf, Professor Rabani, Professor Abd al-Rahim Niazi, and Hakim Yar, and these, and many of the Afghan students, none of them delve into their creed by saying "we are Hanafis." Rather, they say "we are from the people of the Sunnah and the community, and we are upon what the Salaf (the earliest generations) were upon." This is how we know them. Meaning, there are parties; I will answer your question. The leaders of the parties are divided into two groups. One group is from the people of the Sunnah and the community, their creed is pure Salafi, and they display it openly and do not hesitate, like Professor Sayyaf, Hakim Yar, Professor Rabani, and Yunus Khalas. These four are distinguished and declare that they are, do you see, of the creed of the Salaf (the earliest generations), meaning "our creed is such and such," and they do not approve if they find any deviation from this creed among their followers. Meaning, you see deviation among their followers, meaning from the ruqyah (healing by Qur'anic recitation) and matters that you want, do you see, they exist, but...

The Shaykh : The one I want or the one I do not want.

Another questioner : May Allah reward you with good. And Professor Jamil al-Rahman is from these people. Meaning, Professor Jamil al-Rahman was originally in the Islamic Party and from the sons of this thought. Meaning, Jamil al-Rahman did not have the status of being from the people of hadith previously, before this time, when the Saudis came, do you see, and Professor Muhammad Asif came, as Professor Jamal said, and said that there is the Kuwaiti Red Crescent, and at its head is Dr. Muhammad al-Sharhan. Do you see, when they came to Professor Jamil al-Rahman, may Allah reward him with good, they spoke to him in his capacity, just as he was from the people of hadith. Meaning, he was originally from the sons of the Islamic field and followed the Islamic Party, and the person responsible for it was Hakim Yar. So Hakim Yar used to say that the Arabs are the ones who divided us, as evidence that Jamil al-Rahman came from him and walked, and all the aid and capabilities were poured into Jamil al-Rahman's pocket, until he descended on Helmand and descended on Kandahar. In the southern provinces, there are very few groups of Professor Jamil al-Rahman, and he was given aid from the Red Crescent to seven hundred men. So Hakim Yar considered this a fitnah (trial, discord or temptation), and I almost...

The Shaykh : Please, just allow me a question, continue.

The questioner : So Jamil al-Rahman is from the sons of, do you see, the creed of the Salaf (the earliest generations), which no one used to say "I am from the people of hadith." When he split and saw the existing situation and the efforts of people helping him in this, as the brother kindly said, his disagreement with the four is like the disagreement between him and the Salafis internally.

The Shaykh : Our research is not political now.

The questioner : I told you.

The Shaykh : We are not political now. We will enter into the disagreement that was mentioned. No problem, our research is in creed.

The questioner : Excellent, creed.

The Shaykh : Please go ahead.

The questioner : The disagreement, meaning there is no disagreement between the four and Jamil al-Rahman on creed: Sayyaf, Hakim Yar, Rabani, and Yunus Khalas.

The Shaykh : Well, a question.

The questioner : Please go ahead.

The Shaykh : Do you think that these leaders are striving with their brothers in calling them to this correct creed, or are they now occupied with it by fighting the disbelieving communists?

The questioner : They are occupied with fighting the disbelieving communists through this creed.

The Shaykh : Well, since when have they been working with this creed?

The questioner : From the first moment of forming their call from inside Kabul, before...

The Shaykh : Meaning, how many years approximately?

The questioner : From the time of Muhammad Daoud.

The Shaykh : No problem, how many years approximately? Twenty, thirty?
Abu Malik: Twenty years.

The Shaykh : Twenty years. So I understand another good news that the Afghan people, at least those who follow the leadership of these commanders, are Salafis, is that so?

The questioner : They are, I told you.

The Shaykh : No, I am not asking you about that, are they like that?

The questioner : The leadership is Salafi.

The Shaykh : No, I am not asking you about the leadership, may Allah reward you.

The questioner : And the people are Hanafi in their school of jurisprudence.

The Shaykh : I do not want to say that this is a deviation.

The questioner : That is how they are.

The Shaykh : No, very good, but may Allah reward you.

Another questioner : Regarding the Afghans or the Afghan jihad, is the purpose of this session to increase our understanding of the Afghans and the Afghan jihad, and what the Afghan jihad needs to stand on its own feet and correct its course, or is the purpose of this session the exact opposite?

The Shaykh : The purpose is not the opposite; it is exactly what you want, starting with the creed.

The questioner : I want the second point.

Another questioner : Okay, Professor, I will answer you.

The Shaykh : I asked a question earlier: do these mujahideen leaders spread this creed that they tell us is established in their hearts, or do they not? We want to know this truth so that we can cooperate with them in it. Is this not part of jihad?

Another questioner : Yes, is supporting jihad based on whether this is jihad or not? Is it based on the reality that it is jihad and the reality that we must participate in it or support it, or does it depend on a disagreement with this or that person, which must be cleared up as a condition before starting to talk about supporting jihad?

The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah reward you, jihad is supported in many ways. It is supported with money, is it not? It is supported with lives, with supplies, with people, with soldiers. It is supported, before all these things, with the creed, is it not?

The questioner : We support it only with whips.

The Shaykh : With what?

Another questioner : With whips.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you.

Another questioner : We support it with whips.

The Shaykh : I am telling you, is it not so?

The questioner : The Muslims currently support it with whips. We want to know what we must do among the Muslims so that they support it truly.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.
Abu Malik: ... if you please.

The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Abu Malik: First, I may differ with our Shaykh in his opinion on an issue. In fact, I have not asked him about this issue nor discussed its evidence with him, but in any case, I differ with him on it. You know, Shaykh Nasser says that jihad in Afghanistan is an individual obligation (fard 'ayn) for every Muslim who is able to perform jihad. This is Shaykh Nasser who is speaking to you now and talking to your brother Jamal. Therefore, he does not support it with whips.

The questioner : I did not say that.The Shaykh : Specifically about Nasser.
Abu Malik: No, no.

The Shaykh : No, he said it about himself, Professor.

The questioner : It is sensitive to something. No, I did not say it about Shaykh Nasser. I know this statement and I know that Shaykh Nasser said it, and I heard this statement. I am saying what we do among the Muslims in order to...
Abu Malik: For clarification.

The Shaykh : I am present.

Another questioner : Do not take it as a personal sensitivity at all.
Abu Malik: No, it is not a sensitivity.

Another questioner : In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. I understood something from our noble Shaykh. He wants to focus on a specific aspect. If you please, Abu Malik, our honorable Shaykh wanted to clarify a very important issue, which is that the most important work the Muslims do is da'wah (calling others to Islam), more important than anything else: the call to the correct Islam. The Afghans, as the brothers Jamal and Abu Akram mentioned, all or most of them are Hanafi in their school of jurisprudence. However, there are educated leaders, and Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) guided them to the correct religion, which is that of the Salaf (the earliest generations). And Abu Akram said that the four leaders are Salafis. There is a very big problem existing among the Afghans, which is that the leaders of the Afghan jihad have always, over many long years, asked the Arabs who can spread the correct da'wah among the Afghans, whether they are mujahideen or not. But up to this moment, the number of Arab da'iyah (preachers) in Afghanistan is very small and does not correspond at all to what is needed. Therefore, instead of blaming them, we should blame ourselves. We in the Arab countries are falling short, because the Afghans are indeed Hanafi, simple, and do not hear anything else. They move as a horse moves; it sees only what is in front of it and never sees what is around it. The horse that is taught to walk with two skins over its eyes sees only what is in front of it. So it is with the Afghan people. Therefore, we must look for the practical method by which we can...
The session was recorded on 19 Jumada al-Ula 1411.