Is there a difference between faith, affirmation, and knowledge, and faith?

The questioner : And for that reason, our Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He, declared them disbelievers, and as He says:

The Shaykh : Here, Professor, there is no affirmation.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : As for Pharaoh, there is no affirmation as for Pharaoh, and the verse indicates there is no affirmation from them, so where do we take the affirmation from?

The questioner This is regarding Pharaoh and his people.

The Shaykh : ... the verse ... what did Moses say to him?

The questioner :

The Shaykh : Ah.

The questioner :

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner :

The Shaykh :

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Here there is no affirmation, there is no attribution by Moses (peace be upon him) to Pharaoh that he was an affirmer, because it is not hidden from you that you know that in terms of meaning, it is as they say, "you know," and as Allah, Mighty and Majestic, said regarding the Jews: But with this knowledge, did they have faith? I think the answer is no.

The questioner : No

The Shaykh : Now, this knowledge that was expressed in the address of Moses (peace be upon him) to Pharaoh, "you know," "you know" is in the pattern of "you know" in both word and meaning.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : This does not mean that they were affirmers, meaning they were believers, so it means there is ambiguity in the matter.

The questioner : Our Shaykh, may Allah bless you, His saying, the Exalted: This knowledge does not imply that they were in the depths of their hearts affirmers that he was a Messenger, except that they did not bring the remaining pillars of faith, namely submission and obedience.

The Shaykh : We should not repeat the speech. Did the Jews believe in the Messenger?

The questioner : They affirmed him.

The Shaykh : Excuse me, tell me, did they believe?

The questioner : No

The Shaykh : Did they know?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Now, so there is a difference, now it is clear between us that there is a difference between faith and knowledge, so everyone who is a believer knows, and the reverse is not true, not everyone who knows is a believer. Is the speech going up to here?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Very good. Now we take the word from the two words and put another word in its place, which is faith. In my knowledge, faith is synonymous with affirmation, unlike knowledge.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : So we do not distinguish between so-and-so who affirms the Messenger and so-and-so who believes in the Messenger. Is there a difference in what you know?

The questioner : Yes, there is a difference.

The Shaykh : This is what I need to know. How?

The questioner : Say "affirming the Messenger" meaning that a pillar of the pillars of faith is present in him, which is affirmation with his heart. Perhaps he affirms with his heart but does not acknowledge with his tongue.

The Shaykh : Where do we take this from?

The questioner : Now, leave that, Shaykh. Perhaps he affirms with his heart and mocks the verses of Allah and His Messengers. This mocking of the verses of Allah and His Messengers means that there is no reverence and love for Allah and His Messengers in his heart. Do we not declare him a disbeliever?

The Shaykh : Yes, yes.

The questioner : By the absence of this pillar.

The Shaykh : We do not differ on this, may Allah bless you. There are actions that indicate what is in the heart. There are actions that issue from a person that indicate what is in the heart of disbelief and tyranny. Among them is mocking. But our research now, I understand from your speech that there is a difference between faith and affirmation, so it is as they say in other than this occasion, there is generality and specificity.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : So everyone who is a believer is an affirmer, as I said just now, everyone who is a believer is a knower. Now you seem to place the word affirmation opposite knowledge.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : So you want to say, and I hope I am mistaken in what I understood, that not everyone who is a believer at a moment of moments—I say it with the condition so we do not lean toward saying he is exposed to this thing, which indicates that he is a disbeliever, this comes later—but I say I understand from your speech that whoever is a believer at a moment of moments is certainly an affirmer and certainly a knower, but not everyone who is an affirmer at a moment of moments is a believer. This is how I understand from you, meaning whoever is an affirmer at a moment of moments is not a believer, as we say regarding whoever knows the truth of the Messenger (peace be upon him) at a moment of moments, he is not a believer, because knowledge does not coexist with faith, but faith coexists with knowledge.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : But I am now in great doubt about distinguishing between faith and affirmation.

The questioner : I say ... .

The Shaykh : Then I want, regarding the verse in which there is , does it mean the meaning of not a believer? This is how I understood from you.

The questioner : I mean by my saying affirmation that it is a pillar of the pillars of faith. I want to shorten.

The Shaykh : No, excuse me, I asked a question.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : I asked a question. The verse is it the meaning of not faith?

The questioner : No

The Shaykh : This is a problem. So where do we come from with a definition of affirmation that differs from faith in some aspect? And the verse is explicit. So this also, I see, needs contemplation and careful looking, because what has settled in my heart from my old information is not the distinction between affirmation and faith, but the distinction between knowledge and faith. And it is the same for us whether we say the distinction between knowledge and faith or the distinction between knowledge and affirmation, for affirmation and faith, in what I understand, are one thing, meaning two synonymous words indicating what has settled in the heart of faith in Allah and His Messenger. As for knowledge, it is not so.

The questioner : I mean, I see this as a verbal difference, but you are with me, without doubt, that affirmation is a pillar of the pillars of faith, and that a man may be an affirmer and be a disbeliever, and the word disbelief is applied to him if he commits an act of the acts of disbelief, such as mocking Allah and His Messenger. You are with me in this, Shaykh, may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : ... But I say, when the believer is declared a disbeliever by a disbelief that takes him out of the religion, did he remain a believer?

The questioner : No

The Shaykh : Now, when the affirmer is declared a disbeliever by a disbelief that takes him out of the religion, did he remain an affirmer? According to what I understood, you will say yes.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Yes, this distinction, I want it to be clarified.

The questioner : I said, Shaykh, may Allah keep you safe, was Iblis an affirmer or not?

The Shaykh : He disbelieved. He was an affirmer and a believer.

The questioner : But is he still an affirmer now or not?

The Shaykh : This is an argument for us. He disbelieved, who was an affirmer and was in my consideration a believer. As for you, according to your distinction between the two matters, you combine the opposites. So at the time when you distinguish between affirmation and faith, leave that, and this distinction now, before Iblis disbelieved, was he a believer or not?

The questioner : He was a believer.

The Shaykh : Now, when he disbelieved, did he remain a believer?

The questioner : A disbeliever.

The Shaykh : Answer, may Allah bless you, the question so that the S and the J are clarified.

The questioner : He was not a believer.

The Shaykh: May Allah bless you.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : This is it. Now, before he disbelieved, was he an affirmer?

The questioner : And after he disbelieved, was he an affirmer?

The questioner : You have not answered. You have not answered.

The questioner : I answered and more.

The Shaykh : No problem, what is the evidence?

The questioner : The evidence is that he saw the truth with his own eyes ... and he was addressed.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence from the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the sayings of the Imams that affirmation differs from faith, meets with faith and differs from it, as we said in knowledge exactly? So now our example is Iblis the accursed, by the agreement of everyone, was a believer, then when he disbelieved in his denial, Allah, Mighty and Majestic, judged in such as His saying , he disbelieved, meaning he did not remain a believer. But I also say he did not remain an affirmer, because if he was an affirmer and remained an affirmer, he would have prostrated. In summary, so we do not waste time, and Glory be to Allah, time is passing, I hope you will reconsider this point because it has precision from one side, and from another side, I do not know, within the limits of what I know, that the scholars distinguish between faith and affirmation, and the texts that pass by us, and we may forget them, and we mentioned one of them just now, are exactly synonymous with faith, meaning and a believer. So if you want to say no, an affirmer does not mean a believer, you need texts from the Book and the Sunnah, and at least from the texts of the sayings of the Imams of the Salaf whom we follow. So I hope you will reconsider this point, because as you know, the goal does not justify the means. Meaning, if we want from this side to respond to the Murji'ah and we were mistaken in the distinction between affirmation and faith, it will mean that we have destroyed our houses with our own hands. So I hope you will reconsider this point and bring what is easy for you of evidence from the Book or the authentic Sunnah, then from the sayings of the Imams in the distinction between affirmation and faith, at least so I can learn what was not hidden from me.

The questioner : Now, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And now.

The questioner : I see that the disagreement is still verbal. I will recite to you the words of our Lord: So our Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He, declared them disbelievers, even though they knew the truthfulness of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). Here is a statement by Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him): "Whoever reflects upon the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the conduct of the Prophets with their nations, their calling of them, and what occurred between them, will be certain of the error of the people of Kalam, including the Murji'ah, in what they said, and will know that the majority of the disbelief of the nations was based on certainty, knowledge, and awareness of the truthfulness of their Prophets." This is the end of the words of Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him). So I want

The Shaykh : This is what we said just now, and you agreed with me.

The questioner : Therefore, I say the disagreement is verbal, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : That knowledge may coexist with faith, or it may not.

The questioner : All right, I say, O Shaykh, may Allah bless you, you withdrew the word "tashdiq" (affirmation) and said that Iblis, after he did not obey the command of our Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He, was declared a disbeliever by Allah, Mighty and Majestic. And after his disbelief, he knew that Allah is the Truth and that what He commanded was something that had to be obeyed, and he knew that Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is truthful and that what He commanded is truthful. So let us leave the word "tashdiq" and put in its place the word "knowledge," and say likewise that when the people of Moses disbelieved in him, they knew and recognized that he was truly the Messenger of Allah, and yet our Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He, declared them disbelievers. So disbelief is not confined to denial in the heart. What is your opinion of this statement?

The Shaykh : I do not see anything other than us going in circles. I said that knowledge does not necessitate faith, and you are not adding anything to this, whether you bring the example of Iblis or Pharaoh. We are in agreement.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : That faith coexists with knowledge, but the reverse is not the case; knowledge does not coexist with faith.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : We are in agreement on this.

The questioner : Therefore, I say the disagreement is verbal.

The Shaykh : Allow me.

The questioner : Yes, exactly.

The Shaykh : No, the disagreement is verbal regarding this point, perhaps, but regarding what you say—that tashdiq is other than faith, and you make tashdiq as if it is a synonym for knowledge—here there is a real disagreement, not a verbal one. The important thing, may Allah bless you, La ilaha illa Allah, La ilaha illa Allah. Pharaoh, excuse me, Iblis the accursed. We are in agreement that he became a disbeliever after he was a believer.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : And I directed a question: after he became a disbeliever, did he remain a believer? I said no, but I said he remained what?

The questioner : A mu'idd (one who affirms). I withdrew from that and I say

The Shaykh : No problem, no problem, I withdrew from that.

The questioner : He was aware or knowledgeable.

The Shaykh : I withdrew from that.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : This withdrawal may be for the sake of discussion now, but I ask you to reconsider and study the issue anew. Either your study leads you to remain with what you were on, distinguishing between tashdiq and faith, and this contradicts the explicit verse in the Qur'an, or you make tashdiq the same as faith, and that faith and tashdiq are two synonymous terms, unlike knowledge. If we return to the disbelief of Iblis, Iblis disbelieved, and here is a point: Iblis did not disbelieve merely because he opposed the command of Allah.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : But rather because he was arrogant, by the explicit text of the Noble Qur'an, and he was among the disbelievers. Ah.

The questioner : Well done.

The Shaykh : So mere opposition and sin, according to all the people of the Sunnah, does not become a cause for declaring someone a disbeliever. But if something is coupled with this sin that indicates heart-based disbelief, even after the heart was filled with faith, then this faith is overturned and removed because of this disbelief, which is considered creedal disbelief.