(Two should not whisper to each other in the presence of a third): Is the prohibition a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Our Shaykh, regarding the hadithSahih Ibn Hibban 6:275, we are two men with us a child who is, for example, ten years old, or nine, or younger. Does this mean the hadith applies to this situation?
The Shaykh : The answer is, since you love to deepen your understanding of the religion, I am not going to spoon-feed you the answer. Rather, I am going to let you derive the ruling yourself. That is, derive this ruling from your own understanding, or more clearly, is this prohibition a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : Repeat the question, our Shaykh?
The Shaykh : All right. His statement (peace be upon him): Is it a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning or a devotional act?
The questioner : It is not a devotional act.
The Shaykh : No, your answer must not be negative in the manner of the theologians who say, "Allah is neither above nor below. So where is He? Say where He is? Here, He is everywhere. I seek refuge in Allah, this is misguidance. In the heavens? Yes, no, no, no, however you try to describe it, it is not legislated and it is never narrated. So say, is it a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning; a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. I got it right. What is its rationality?
...
Al-Halabi : You are fudging the answer, but she is not fudging it?
The Shaykh : I mean, what do we mean when we say that this hadith is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : I mean, perhaps the term, our Shaykh, if you...
The Shaykh : And that is how I see it. A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning is the opposite of a devotional act. A devotional act is one where we do not know the secret, we do not know the wisdom, we do not know the purpose of a command or a prohibition. A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning is exactly the opposite; we know why the Lawgiver commanded such a thing or prohibited such a thing, and so on. For example, He prohibited sales involving excessive uncertainty. Is that a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : A matter whose meaning is rational.
The Shaykh : A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. It is very clear. Now, here we want to say one of two things: Is it a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning or not?
The questioner : A matter whose meaning is rational.
The Shaykh : What is its rationality?
The questioner : For that would harm him.
The Shaykh : For that would what?
The questioner : Or sadden him.
The Shaykh : No, what was the first one?
The questioner : For that would harm him.
The Shaykh : No, it saddens him, it saddens him. So this is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, correct?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : We go back and ask you: does a boy who is ten years old get saddened?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : If you have taken the answer, that is enough. Is it clear?
The questioner : It is clear, my professor.
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, as it is said, is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning also called a devotional act?
The Shaykh : Keep your question in mind. I mean, the result is that it is permissible. Why? Because the meaning for which it was prohibited is not realized in this situation.
Al-Halabi : On the contrary, our Shaykh, I mean, two adults whispering in the presence of a child.
The Shaykh: It is like this, the question...
The questioner : It is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning and also a devotional act.
The Shaykh : No, you are philosophizing on your own, it is fine, but be patient, because by this statement you mean that one must adhere to this ruling. You mean by this statement that this ruling is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning but a devotional act in the sense that our Lord has obligated us with it and made it an act of worship, and you do not mean anything else?
The questioner : That is what I intend.
The Shaykh : That is it. But what you intend does not align with the general definition among the scholars, because they make the ruling either a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. But when they say it is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, it is not in their minds that because the ruling is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, one is not obligated to adhere to it, not obligated to implement it. No, one is obligated to adhere to it. But does it have to be absolute, without us engaging our minds, as we say, for example, why is the sunset prayer three units? We do not know. Why are two units recited aloud and the other silently? We do not know. But here, the ruling may differ when it is what? A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, and this situation is very clear. Because it saddens this boy; he is not in this category and not in this stream.
Al-Halabi : The situation I got confused about is that if three are present and a child of this age, and two speak in the presence of this child and this man?
The Shaykh : The same answer: does it sadden him or does it not sadden him?
Al-Halabi : The adult gets saddened in the presence of this child, of course.
The Shaykh : What concerns us here is the child, the child... an extra word, is it not? An extra word that has no value here.
Al-Halabi : The language, some of the scholars, as I recall, applied the ruling of different languages to whispering because they share the same operative cause here, which is causing sadness. For example, two people speak English and one does not know English?
The Shaykh : This is one of the benefits of the text being a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning.
The questioner : Our Shaykh, regarding the hadith
Two should not whisper to each other in the presence of a third
لا يتناجى اثنان دون ثالثThe Shaykh : The answer is, since you love to deepen your understanding of the religion, I am not going to spoon-feed you the answer. Rather, I am going to let you derive the ruling yourself. That is, derive this ruling from your own understanding, or more clearly, is this prohibition a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : Repeat the question, our Shaykh?
The Shaykh : All right. His statement (peace be upon him):
Two should not whisper to each other while a third is between them
لا يتناجى اثنان وبينهما ثالثThe questioner : It is not a devotional act.
The Shaykh : No, your answer must not be negative in the manner of the theologians who say, "Allah is neither above nor below. So where is He? Say where He is? Here, He is everywhere. I seek refuge in Allah, this is misguidance. In the heavens? Yes, no, no, no, however you try to describe it, it is not legislated and it is never narrated. So say, is it a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning; a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. I got it right. What is its rationality?
...
Al-Halabi : You are fudging the answer, but she is not fudging it?
The Shaykh : I mean, what do we mean when we say that this hadith is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : I mean, perhaps the term, our Shaykh, if you...
The Shaykh : And that is how I see it. A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning is the opposite of a devotional act. A devotional act is one where we do not know the secret, we do not know the wisdom, we do not know the purpose of a command or a prohibition. A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning is exactly the opposite; we know why the Lawgiver commanded such a thing or prohibited such a thing, and so on. For example, He prohibited sales involving excessive uncertainty. Is that a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning?
The questioner : A matter whose meaning is rational.
The Shaykh : A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. It is very clear. Now, here we want to say one of two things:
Two should not whisper to each other while a third is between them
لا يتناجى اثنان بينهما ثالثThe questioner : A matter whose meaning is rational.
The Shaykh : What is its rationality?
The questioner : For that would harm him.
The Shaykh : For that would what?
The questioner : Or sadden him.
The Shaykh : No, what was the first one?
The questioner : For that would harm him.
The Shaykh : No, it saddens him, it saddens him. So this is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, correct?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : We go back and ask you: does a boy who is ten years old get saddened?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : If you have taken the answer, that is enough. Is it clear?
The questioner : It is clear, my professor.
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, as it is said, is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning also called a devotional act?
The Shaykh : Keep your question in mind. I mean, the result is that it is permissible. Why? Because the meaning for which it was prohibited is not realized in this situation.
Al-Halabi : On the contrary, our Shaykh, I mean, two adults whispering in the presence of a child.
The Shaykh: It is like this, the question...
The questioner : It is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning and also a devotional act.
The Shaykh : No, you are philosophizing on your own, it is fine, but be patient, because by this statement you mean that one must adhere to this ruling. You mean by this statement that this ruling is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning but a devotional act in the sense that our Lord has obligated us with it and made it an act of worship, and you do not mean anything else?
The questioner : That is what I intend.
The Shaykh : That is it. But what you intend does not align with the general definition among the scholars, because they make the ruling either a devotional act or a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning. But when they say it is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, it is not in their minds that because the ruling is a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, one is not obligated to adhere to it, not obligated to implement it. No, one is obligated to adhere to it. But does it have to be absolute, without us engaging our minds, as we say, for example, why is the sunset prayer three units? We do not know. Why are two units recited aloud and the other silently? We do not know. But here, the ruling may differ when it is what? A rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning, and this situation is very clear. Because it saddens this boy; he is not in this category and not in this stream.
Al-Halabi : The situation I got confused about is that if three are present and a child of this age, and two speak in the presence of this child and this man?
The Shaykh : The same answer: does it sadden him or does it not sadden him?
Al-Halabi : The adult gets saddened in the presence of this child, of course.
The Shaykh : What concerns us here is the child, the child... an extra word, is it not? An extra word that has no value here.
Al-Halabi : The language, some of the scholars, as I recall, applied the ruling of different languages to whispering because they share the same operative cause here, which is causing sadness. For example, two people speak English and one does not know English?
The Shaykh : This is one of the benefits of the text being a rational prohibition with a comprehensible meaning.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.