(Explanation that revelation and reason do not contradict each other, and that revelation came with what confounds the intellects, not what the intellects reject, with mention of examples) And he says that revelation
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The Shaykh :"And he says that revelation is not opposed *** to reason"
Meaning, none of them says that revelation is not opposed to revelation. Yes, none of them says that revelation is not opposed to reason. Rather, some of them say that revelation is opposed to reason, and that when reason and revelation conflict, reason must be given precedence. Yes, the author (may Allah have mercy on him) says:
"And he says that revelation is not opposed *** to reason, but rather two matters that agree"
Meaning, rather, they are two matters that agree. Who says this? The people of affirmation or the people of denial? Those who say that revelation is not opposed to reason and that they are two matters that agree are the people of affirmation. That is complete. There are no people of denial who say this.
"And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not with the impossible that is clearly false"
Do you have it? And the impossible, or not with the impossible?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Without the preposition "ba" in your copy? Do you have a "ba"? Let us see which one fits.
"And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not with the impossible that is clearly false"
Or do we say: "And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not the impossible that is clearly false"
The second is closer. Okay, meaning that revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what they make impossible. Put down your copies. Revelation did not come with anything impossible, but it came with what confounds the intellects. And this is the reality. However, the confusion of the intellects regarding what revelation brought does not indicate the invalidity of revelation, but rather indicates the shortcoming of the intellects where they were confounded. For example, revelation came that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above His Throne and that He descends to the lowest heaven. The intellect is confounded and says, how does He descend while He is above His Throne? How do we affirm that He descended while He has absolute elevation? We say this confounds the intellect, but it does not see it as impossible. However, the intellect does not see this as impossible with regard to Allah (Mighty and Majestic). It is impossible for us, but it is not impossible for Allah. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be in one place, on one plain. The Caller will be heard by them, and the sight will reach them. Some will sweat until the sweat reaches their ankles, some until it reaches their knees, some until it reaches their waists, and some will be covered by it up to their lips. And they are on one plain and in one place. Is the intellect confounded here or not? It is confounded. How? How can this be when they are on one plain? So we say this is not impossible, because the Hereafter is not measured by the world. This is impossible in the world, but in the Hereafter it is not impossible. It is not impossible. Although in the world it is possible, because if water were found on uneven ground, the water would be at its highest point, for example, up to the ankle, and at its neck it would cover it, cover it.
But in any case, the basis is that we do not measure the matters of the Hereafter by the matters of the world. The rule here is that revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what the intellects reject. Correct? This rule is correct or not? The intellect, revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what the intellects reject. Yes.
"So look at the Jahmi how he came to *** the roots of guidance and the strongholds of faith"
He came to them with what?
"With the pickaxes of denial he cuts them, so *** what remains of faith with denial"
"Or what remains of faith with denial"
The Jahmi is a reference to Jahm ibn Safwan.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Ah, yes. Okay, yes, yes. The verse was dropped.
"And he says that Allah, Exalted is His Majesty, *** speaks with the revelation and the Qur'an"
I think you read it.
Meaning, none of them says that revelation is not opposed to revelation. Yes, none of them says that revelation is not opposed to reason. Rather, some of them say that revelation is opposed to reason, and that when reason and revelation conflict, reason must be given precedence. Yes, the author (may Allah have mercy on him) says:
"And he says that revelation is not opposed *** to reason, but rather two matters that agree"
Meaning, rather, they are two matters that agree. Who says this? The people of affirmation or the people of denial? Those who say that revelation is not opposed to reason and that they are two matters that agree are the people of affirmation. That is complete. There are no people of denial who say this.
"And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not with the impossible that is clearly false"
Do you have it? And the impossible, or not with the impossible?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Without the preposition "ba" in your copy? Do you have a "ba"? Let us see which one fits.
"And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not with the impossible that is clearly false"
Or do we say: "And revelation came with what the intellect confounds in *** it, not the impossible that is clearly false"
The second is closer. Okay, meaning that revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what they make impossible. Put down your copies. Revelation did not come with anything impossible, but it came with what confounds the intellects. And this is the reality. However, the confusion of the intellects regarding what revelation brought does not indicate the invalidity of revelation, but rather indicates the shortcoming of the intellects where they were confounded. For example, revelation came that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above His Throne and that He descends to the lowest heaven. The intellect is confounded and says, how does He descend while He is above His Throne? How do we affirm that He descended while He has absolute elevation? We say this confounds the intellect, but it does not see it as impossible. However, the intellect does not see this as impossible with regard to Allah (Mighty and Majestic). It is impossible for us, but it is not impossible for Allah. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be in one place, on one plain. The Caller will be heard by them, and the sight will reach them. Some will sweat until the sweat reaches their ankles, some until it reaches their knees, some until it reaches their waists, and some will be covered by it up to their lips. And they are on one plain and in one place. Is the intellect confounded here or not? It is confounded. How? How can this be when they are on one plain? So we say this is not impossible, because the Hereafter is not measured by the world. This is impossible in the world, but in the Hereafter it is not impossible. It is not impossible. Although in the world it is possible, because if water were found on uneven ground, the water would be at its highest point, for example, up to the ankle, and at its neck it would cover it, cover it.
But in any case, the basis is that we do not measure the matters of the Hereafter by the matters of the world. The rule here is that revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what the intellects reject. Correct? This rule is correct or not? The intellect, revelation came with what the intellects confound in, not with what the intellects reject. Yes.
"So look at the Jahmi how he came to *** the roots of guidance and the strongholds of faith"
He came to them with what?
"With the pickaxes of denial he cuts them, so *** what remains of faith with denial"
"Or what remains of faith with denial"
The Jahmi is a reference to Jahm ibn Safwan.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Ah, yes. Okay, yes, yes. The verse was dropped.
"And he says that Allah, Exalted is His Majesty, *** speaks with the revelation and the Qur'an"
I think you read it.