The method of deriving evidence from the hadith of Ma‘n when he gave charity to a poor man, only to find out he was his son, in relation to the previous story of the man and his father who sold his land without his knowledge?

The Shaykh : But I want to benefit from two aspects. First, I did not understand how this hadith of Ma‘n is relevant to this topic, because first he gave charity, thinking it was to a poor man, and then he found out it was his son. So the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said, as you mentioned, what is the lesson to be taken from the hadith?
'Umar al-Ashqar: The method of deriving evidence from the two hadiths.

The Shaykh : Excuse me, because regarding the second hadith, which is in your first list, I want to ask about it. So please, what is the method of deriving evidence from this hadith right now?
'Umar al-Ashqar: Litigation, meaning he did not obey his father.

The Shaykh : Why? Who did not obey?
'Umar al-Ashqar: When he took the money.

The Shaykh : From whom did he take it?
'Umar al-Ashqar: The son took the money.

The Shaykh : He took it over his father’s objection.
'Umar al-Ashqar: No. No.

The Shaykh : If.
'Umar al-Ashqar: He had no will in taking it or leaving it, because the person in the mosque was the one who gave him the money.

The Shaykh : No problem, may Allah reward you, but here the Shari'ah has issued a ruling.
'Umar al-Ashqar: The point of citation is only regarding the litigation.

The Shaykh : Is there litigation in this hadith?
Al-Ashqar: Yes.

The Shaykh : And it is.
'Umar al-Ashqar: They took the case to the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). If the matter had been about obedience in direct cases, the son should have taken the money and returned it to the man in the mosque, saying, "My father does not agree that I take the money, so please take this money." But the son insisted on his position. When he insisted on his position, the father took the case to the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and complained to him. So what I am saying is that litigation in financial matters regarding rights had a degree of leniency in...

The Shaykh : No problem, but was the son’s insistence in accordance with the Shari'ah in the end, or contrary to it?
'Umar al-Ashqar: The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). We know by the ruling of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : This is it, and therefore
Al-Ashqar: So the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) means it has two aspects: the judicial aspect, the ruling, the ruling of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) This is the ruling of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), the Shari'ah ruling for the case. But regarding the dispute, the son could have returned the money in the financial right as obedience to his father, as long as you say, "This is my father" in this case. So the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) did not rebuke Ma‘n for his position in disputing with his father. It should have been said, "O Ma‘n, you should have obeyed your father and not opposed him in this case."

The Shaykh : I do not think a general rule can be derived from this. Perhaps you remember If a father gives his son money and then wants to take that money from him, and the son refuses, and there is no hadith that specifies this rule, does it mean it is said that this son litigated against his father and did not submit to him, while this father had disposed of his money in a lawful manner? Here, the litigation has no basis from the father to the son.
'Umar al-Ashqar: The point is that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) did not rebuke him for the litigation. The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) did not rebuke Ma‘n for litigating against his father.

The Shaykh : Correct, but I want to distinguish between a case where we have evidence that this son who was approved of has a Shari'ah proof, and another son who does not have a Shari'ah proof but only his opinion. Do we not distinguish between the two cases?
'Umar al-Ashqar: I did not understand.

The Shaykh : Ma‘n has a Shari'ah ruling, which is what was issued by the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).
Al-Ashqar: He did not know it.

The Shaykh : I did not say he did not know it, I am telling you later. Well, if this story is repeated, it is a precedent for Ma‘n. But when another story occurs, in my opinion, it is not permissible to take this story as evidence for another story where the son has no proof and no argument that he has the right to litigate against his father in such a case. I think, by way of approximation, as you know, some scholars hold that if someone innovates a recitation or a dhikr that does not contradict the Shari'ah, it is permissible for him to do so, following the example of that man whose report came in the Sahih, when he entered the mosque, sneezed, and said, "May Allah hear the one who praises Him. Our Lord, and to You is praise, much good and blessed praise." The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said: The people remained silent. When he repeated it, he said, "It was me, O Messenger of Allah, and I did not intend anything but good by it." He said: They derive evidence from this incident: this man brought a dhikr from himself, and the Messenger approved of it. So my view of this incident is that it is not permissible to consider it as evidence that every person can innovate whatever dhikr or recitations they wish, on the grounds that this person innovated, because we derived that this recitation is permissible from the approval of the Messenger for the one who did this dhikr, with a second possibility that he may have received it from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) before, but the mention of it has virtue.
'Umar al-Ashqar: This dhikr after he sneezed.

The Shaykh : Yes, in some narrations. And in some narrations, during the bowing. Yes.

The questioner : In the rising from it.

The Shaykh : How?

The questioner : In the rising from it.

The Shaykh : In the rising, yes. I think my view on this issue has become clear to you. This does not make a rule for every person to innovate, because this person innovated and was approved of, and Ma‘n was also approved of by the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). So I do not know, I do not think we can expand the issue completely.
'Umar al-Ashqar: But there is a hadith.