What is the meaning of specific elevation?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : What are you saying?
The questioner : Regarding your statement about the elevation of Allah (Mighty and Majestic), it is not permissible to say "He elevated Himself above the sky."
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : If the elevation is...
The Shaykh : No, we did not say what you said.
The questioner : Istawa (He rose)
The Shaykh : We said this, my brothers.
The student: No, no.
The Shaykh : What is this talk?
The questioner : Istawa (He rose)
The Shaykh : You are attributing to me what I did not say, and I am present in the place.
The questioner : If "istawa" (established Himself) means...
The Shaykh : We do not say "He established Himself above the sky."
The questioner : If "istawa" means "elevated," then what is the difference?
The Shaykh : Yes, we said "specific elevation." Read it, may Allah reward you, and purify your tongue from saying to the teacher "you said so and so," because this implies that you do not agree with what I am saying. Even if you agree, this expression is bad for a student. Say, for example, "we said so and so," because a student is supposed to say what his teacher said, at least in the learning circle. But to say "you said" as if you are debating me is considered bad conduct for a student. We excuse some of our brothers because, unfortunately, they have not read the etiquette of the student of knowledge. So, may Allah reward you, say "you said."
And when you quote, clarify the quote. Clarify the quote. We did not say that it is never permissible to say "He elevated Himself above the heavens." If we had said that, we would be lying. But we said we do not say "He established Himself above the sky." Why? Because "istiwaa" (establishing Himself) is a specific elevation, as stated by the Shaykh al-Islam in the "Risalat al-'Arsh" (Treatise on the Throne) and other scholars. It is also clear. Do not blame me if I get angry, for Imam Malik said to a man: "Asking about it is an innovation, and I do not see you as anything but an innovator", and then he ordered him to be taken out. As for me, I excuse you and say: clarify the quote, may Allah reward you, especially in matters of creed.
The questioner : ... the problem ...
The Shaykh : There is no problem. I have given you an example to clarify the meaning. A man was on a chair on the roof. There is a general elevation above the entire house, including what is under the ceiling. And there is a specific elevation, which is establishing Himself directly on this chair. This is not specific to anything other than what He established Himself upon.
The questioner : ... response ...
The Shaykh : What is the response?
The questioner : Then He rose above the heaven
The Shaykh :
The questioner : Meaning "elevated."
The Shaykh : No, we told you that if "istawa" is restricted by "ila" (to), it means "intended."
The questioner : ... the sky ...
The Shaykh : This is not "ala" (above) nor "ila" (to).
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : It is clear. The important point is that "istawa ala" (established Himself above) something is specific to Him and does not encompass others. But if the Throne is above all creations, then the establishment of Allah upon the Throne necessitates that He is elevated, not merely established, elevated above all creations.
The questioner : If He is elevated above all creations, and we said that before establishing Himself upon the Throne, He established Himself upon it, and we do not say "He took possession of it."
The Shaykh : Yes, but He is elevated above it, because elevation is one of the essential attributes that Allah can never be separated from.
The questioner : And the rising above
The Shaykh : From the action attributes.
The student: It is finished.
The Shaykh : No, it does not contradict, my brother. This is a creed, and we must correct the creed of our brothers. It must be clear now.
The questioner : So, approximately, approximately, your answer is clear, but the conceptualization...
The Shaykh : Conceptualization, conceptualization, may Allah reward you. "Istawa ala al-'Arsh" (established Himself upon the Throne). Establishing Himself upon the Throne is a specific elevation. I cannot say "He established Himself upon it" meaning direct elevation, because I avoid the word "direct." But for me, I am on this chair directly. This is direct elevation. But my elevation above the ground now, is it direct or indirect? Indirect. This brings the matter closer to you. There is no harm in using an example to clarify meanings, not for likeness, as the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said:Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2554Sahih (Darussalam)
So, the important point, may Allah reward you, is that "istawa ala" (established Himself above) something means He elevated Himself above it with a specific elevation. As for me and you, we say "direct." But as for Allah, we do not say "direct" or "indirect." For this reason, Ibn al-Jawzi erred in his statement: "Allah created Adam with His hand and did not touch Him". They said, you have no right to say "did not touch Him." Similarly, if you say "He established Himself upon the Throne and did not touch it," you have no right. Or if you say "He established Himself upon it and touched it," you have no right. And Allah knows best.
The Shaykh : What are you saying?
The questioner : Regarding your statement about the elevation of Allah (Mighty and Majestic), it is not permissible to say "He elevated Himself above the sky."
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : If the elevation is...
The Shaykh : No, we did not say what you said.
The questioner : Istawa (He rose)
The Shaykh : We said this, my brothers.
The student: No, no.
The Shaykh : What is this talk?
The questioner : Istawa (He rose)
The Shaykh : You are attributing to me what I did not say, and I am present in the place.
The questioner : If "istawa" (established Himself) means...
The Shaykh : We do not say "He established Himself above the sky."
The questioner : If "istawa" means "elevated," then what is the difference?
The Shaykh : Yes, we said "specific elevation." Read it, may Allah reward you, and purify your tongue from saying to the teacher "you said so and so," because this implies that you do not agree with what I am saying. Even if you agree, this expression is bad for a student. Say, for example, "we said so and so," because a student is supposed to say what his teacher said, at least in the learning circle. But to say "you said" as if you are debating me is considered bad conduct for a student. We excuse some of our brothers because, unfortunately, they have not read the etiquette of the student of knowledge. So, may Allah reward you, say "you said."
And when you quote, clarify the quote. Clarify the quote. We did not say that it is never permissible to say "He elevated Himself above the heavens." If we had said that, we would be lying. But we said we do not say "He established Himself above the sky." Why? Because "istiwaa" (establishing Himself) is a specific elevation, as stated by the Shaykh al-Islam in the "Risalat al-'Arsh" (Treatise on the Throne) and other scholars. It is also clear. Do not blame me if I get angry, for Imam Malik said to a man: "Asking about it is an innovation, and I do not see you as anything but an innovator", and then he ordered him to be taken out. As for me, I excuse you and say: clarify the quote, may Allah reward you, especially in matters of creed.
The questioner : ... the problem ...
The Shaykh : There is no problem. I have given you an example to clarify the meaning. A man was on a chair on the roof. There is a general elevation above the entire house, including what is under the ceiling. And there is a specific elevation, which is establishing Himself directly on this chair. This is not specific to anything other than what He established Himself upon.
The questioner : ... response ...
The Shaykh : What is the response?
The questioner : Then He rose above the heaven
The Shaykh :
He established Himself to
استوى إلىThe questioner : Meaning "elevated."
The Shaykh : No, we told you that if "istawa" is restricted by "ila" (to), it means "intended."
The questioner : ... the sky ...
The Shaykh : This is not "ala" (above) nor "ila" (to).
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : It is clear. The important point is that "istawa ala" (established Himself above) something is specific to Him and does not encompass others. But if the Throne is above all creations, then the establishment of Allah upon the Throne necessitates that He is elevated, not merely established, elevated above all creations.
The questioner : If He is elevated above all creations, and we said that before establishing Himself upon the Throne, He established Himself upon it, and we do not say "He took possession of it."
The Shaykh : Yes, but He is elevated above it, because elevation is one of the essential attributes that Allah can never be separated from.
The questioner : And the rising above
The Shaykh : From the action attributes.
The student: It is finished.
The Shaykh : No, it does not contradict, my brother. This is a creed, and we must correct the creed of our brothers. It must be clear now.
The questioner : So, approximately, approximately, your answer is clear, but the conceptualization...
The Shaykh : Conceptualization, conceptualization, may Allah reward you. "Istawa ala al-'Arsh" (established Himself upon the Throne). Establishing Himself upon the Throne is a specific elevation. I cannot say "He established Himself upon it" meaning direct elevation, because I avoid the word "direct." But for me, I am on this chair directly. This is direct elevation. But my elevation above the ground now, is it direct or indirect? Indirect. This brings the matter closer to you. There is no harm in using an example to clarify meanings, not for likeness, as the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
you shall see your Lord as you see the moon
إنكم سترون ربكم كما ترون القمرSo, the important point, may Allah reward you, is that "istawa ala" (established Himself above) something means He elevated Himself above it with a specific elevation. As for me and you, we say "direct." But as for Allah, we do not say "direct" or "indirect." For this reason, Ibn al-Jawzi erred in his statement: "Allah created Adam with His hand and did not touch Him". They said, you have no right to say "did not touch Him." Similarly, if you say "He established Himself upon the Throne and did not touch it," you have no right. Or if you say "He established Himself upon it and touched it," you have no right. And Allah knows best.