Questions about the attribute of Istiwa' (rising above the Throne).
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : Do we say it is not established because it is not mentioned in the text, or do we say there is a detailed ruling regarding it?
The Shaykh : I say that the wording neither affirms nor denies.
The questioner : Meaning, we distinguish.
The Shaykh : This wording, not that we distinguish, but we say if she intended such and such, then the term "body" is applied to Allah... The term "body" is prohibited from being applied, whether in negation or affirmation.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : But in the sense, in the sense, because they deny all of this, because they...
The questioner : It is possible to counter... Oh Shaykh, if someone asked.
The Shaykh : If someone asked, we tell him that the term "body" is not mentioned in the Qur'an or the Sunnah... But you must believe that Allah has a great Essence described...
The questioner : ... their interpretation of Istiwa' (rising above the Throne) as meaning "to dominate."
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : What is said in response to them is that it is also a necessary implication that domination does not occur except after struggle, hardship, and fatigue. Therefore, it follows that when Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) dominated, He was touched by fatigue, and Allah has purified Himself and said:[Qaf 50:38]
The Shaykh : We mentioned this mostly, mostly that domination occurs in the context of overcoming an opponent.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : No... meaning, did you become equal to them?
The questioner : If you became equal to them...
The Shaykh : Meaning, did you become equal to them? Here, "the water and the wood became equal" means the water and the wood became level. It is not that the water and the wood became equal to something... A mark. When the water reached this, for example... Do you know this? In the beginning... they would place a mark, and when the water reached it, they would open it, meaning they would open... and let it flow. This... .
The questioner : Shaykh, Shaykh
The Shaykh : ... "the water and the wood became equal" means this meaning of becoming level.
The questioner : Ibn Kathir's interpretation, oh Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : "It rose to..." The second verse, oh Shaykh, as you mentioned, oh Shaykh, the issue... was not about the sky, and that elevation is an attribute of the Essence. How is this issue answered?
The Shaykh : It is not answered except if we interpret "to" as meaning "upon."
The questioner : But the language allows this statement, the statement of Ibn Kathir, meaning when it is followed by "to," it necessitates the endpoint.
The Shaykh : I agree with the words of Ibn Kathir... in this.
The questioner : But this issue must be answered.
The Shaykh : This is what I say... He intended to go to the sky with complete will.
The questioner : Abu al-'Aliyyah interpreted it as meaning "He rose."
The Shaykh : The same thing, He rose and ascended, it is all one thing.
The questioner : But it is not in the sense of will.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : It is not in the sense of will.
The Shaykh : Okay... it is like Ibn Jarir's interpretation of it as meaning "He elevated," but Ibn Kathir's statement is clearer and closer...
The questioner : Does he assert this statement?
The Shaykh : Asserting in the sense of preferring, yes, he prefers this statement. But asserting in the sense that it does not allow for anything else, no.
The questioner : ... the texts, oh Shaykh, how do the Salaf interpret them, oh Shaykh? This is Abu al-'Aliyyah from the three centuries.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : And Ibn Kathir is very late compared to him.
The Shaykh : Even if he is late, as long as Abu al-'Aliyyah is not from the Companions, whose interpretation is an argument in disagreement, they are the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them). As for those after them, their interpretation is not an argument.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : To what?
The questioner : To the Throne...
The Shaykh : And blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon his family and all his Companions.
It has been established for us that one of the principles of the people of the Sunnah and the community is the belief that Allah rose above the Throne. They believe that Istiwa' (rising above the Throne) means elevation and settling, and they believe that Istiwa' is an attribute of action related to His will, and they refute those who interpreted "Istiwa'" as "dominated." All of this was covered in the previous lesson, and there is no need to repeat it because the discussion was completed. We mentioned previously that "Istiwa'" in the Arabic language occurs in four forms: with "upon" (ala), with "to" (ila), with the letter "waw," and standalone. Each position has a meaning. So when it is combined with "upon," it means "upon," such as: [Hud 11:44] And when it is combined with "to," its meaning is the intention with complete will, or elevation, according to a disagreement among the scholars of the Salaf, and the closest is the first, because the Arabic language, as we have passed through, may include in the verb another meaning indicated by the preposition it is followed by or the one it is directed to.
Okay, if it is combined with the letter "waw," it means equality. From this is their saying "the water and the wood became equal." "The water and the wood became equal" means the water and the wood became level. But what is the meaning of this statement? It means that they place a piece of wood, and when the water reaches it, they stop draining the pond. In the beginning, they would fill it with water and drain it with buckets or other means. When the water reached a piece of wood placed as a mark, they said "the water and the wood became equal," meaning they became level.
The fourth is that it is standalone, and its meaning is perfection. From this is His saying, the Exalted:[Al-Qasas 28:14] Okay, is this last one His saying, the Exalted: [Taha 20:5]
The student: No.
The Shaykh : It did not come with "upon" after it.
The student: It is attributed to...
The Shaykh : Pay attention, my brother, it did not come with "upon" after it. We say, but it came before it. Therefore, "upon the Throne He rose." The prepositional phrase and the noun in the genitive case are connected.
The student: To "Istiwa'."
The Shaykh : To "Istiwa'," but it was placed before it for specification and restriction. Okay.
The questioner : We say combined.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : We say combined, we do not say after it.
The Shaykh : Yes, combined, whether before it or after it. Okay. Then, when the author (may Allah have mercy on him) finished mentioning the verses of Istiwa', which are seven clear and explicit verses, he began to mention the knowledge. But some people asked, saying: If we say "He created the heavens and then He rose," does it imply that before that He was not elevated? Does it imply that before that He was not elevated? Is this correct?
The student: No, it is not correct.
The Shaykh : Look, he says the verse is "He created, then He rose," and this implies that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not elevated. So the answer is:
The student: It does not necessitate it.
The Shaykh : It does not imply, it does not imply. Yes, it indicates that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not settled upon the Throne. And settling upon the Throne is more specific than general elevation, because settling upon the Throne is a specific elevation related to the Throne, and elevation is comprehensive over all created things. His elevation (Mighty and Majestic) is established for Him eternally and forever. He has not ceased to be elevated, but He is not elevated upon the Throne. He is not elevated upon the Throne by His Essence, meaning the elevation that is specific to the Throne. And I think the issue is clear. Therefore, it does not follow from His not settling upon His Throne that He is not elevated. Rather, He is elevated, and then after creating the heavens and the earth, He had a specific elevation upon the Throne. He had a specific elevation upon the Throne.
Okay, if I say we understand from the noble verse that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not elevated upon the Throne, but before creating the heavens and the earth, was He settled upon the Throne or not? We say Allah knows best about that.
Okay, a second question: Is the Throne before the heavens and the earth or after them?
The student: Before
The Shaykh : Before the heavens and the earth. Yes, as Allah, the Exalted, said:[Hud 11:7] And His Throne was upon the water. Meaning when He created the heavens and the earth. Clear. Okay.
The author now began with the verses of elevation.
The Shaykh : I say that the wording neither affirms nor denies.
The questioner : Meaning, we distinguish.
The Shaykh : This wording, not that we distinguish, but we say if she intended such and such, then the term "body" is applied to Allah... The term "body" is prohibited from being applied, whether in negation or affirmation.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : But in the sense, in the sense, because they deny all of this, because they...
The questioner : It is possible to counter... Oh Shaykh, if someone asked.
The Shaykh : If someone asked, we tell him that the term "body" is not mentioned in the Qur'an or the Sunnah... But you must believe that Allah has a great Essence described...
The questioner : ... their interpretation of Istiwa' (rising above the Throne) as meaning "to dominate."
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : What is said in response to them is that it is also a necessary implication that domination does not occur except after struggle, hardship, and fatigue. Therefore, it follows that when Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) dominated, He was touched by fatigue, and Allah has purified Himself and said:
and there touched Us no weariness.
وما مسنا من لغوبThe Shaykh : We mentioned this mostly, mostly that domination occurs in the context of overcoming an opponent.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : No... meaning, did you become equal to them?
The questioner : If you became equal to them...
The Shaykh : Meaning, did you become equal to them? Here, "the water and the wood became equal" means the water and the wood became level. It is not that the water and the wood became equal to something... A mark. When the water reached this, for example... Do you know this? In the beginning... they would place a mark, and when the water reached it, they would open it, meaning they would open... and let it flow. This... .
The questioner : Shaykh, Shaykh
The Shaykh : ... "the water and the wood became equal" means this meaning of becoming level.
The questioner : Ibn Kathir's interpretation, oh Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : "It rose to..." The second verse, oh Shaykh, as you mentioned, oh Shaykh, the issue... was not about the sky, and that elevation is an attribute of the Essence. How is this issue answered?
The Shaykh : It is not answered except if we interpret "to" as meaning "upon."
The questioner : But the language allows this statement, the statement of Ibn Kathir, meaning when it is followed by "to," it necessitates the endpoint.
The Shaykh : I agree with the words of Ibn Kathir... in this.
The questioner : But this issue must be answered.
The Shaykh : This is what I say... He intended to go to the sky with complete will.
The questioner : Abu al-'Aliyyah interpreted it as meaning "He rose."
The Shaykh : The same thing, He rose and ascended, it is all one thing.
The questioner : But it is not in the sense of will.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : It is not in the sense of will.
The Shaykh : Okay... it is like Ibn Jarir's interpretation of it as meaning "He elevated," but Ibn Kathir's statement is clearer and closer...
The questioner : Does he assert this statement?
The Shaykh : Asserting in the sense of preferring, yes, he prefers this statement. But asserting in the sense that it does not allow for anything else, no.
The questioner : ... the texts, oh Shaykh, how do the Salaf interpret them, oh Shaykh? This is Abu al-'Aliyyah from the three centuries.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : And Ibn Kathir is very late compared to him.
The Shaykh : Even if he is late, as long as Abu al-'Aliyyah is not from the Companions, whose interpretation is an argument in disagreement, they are the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them). As for those after them, their interpretation is not an argument.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : To what?
The questioner : To the Throne...
The Shaykh : And blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon his family and all his Companions.
It has been established for us that one of the principles of the people of the Sunnah and the community is the belief that Allah rose above the Throne. They believe that Istiwa' (rising above the Throne) means elevation and settling, and they believe that Istiwa' is an attribute of action related to His will, and they refute those who interpreted "Istiwa'" as "dominated." All of this was covered in the previous lesson, and there is no need to repeat it because the discussion was completed. We mentioned previously that "Istiwa'" in the Arabic language occurs in four forms: with "upon" (ala), with "to" (ila), with the letter "waw," and standalone. Each position has a meaning. So when it is combined with "upon," it means "upon," such as:
He settled upon the Throne
استوى على العرشthe ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy
استوت على الجوديYou settled upon it.
استويتم عليهOkay, if it is combined with the letter "waw," it means equality. From this is their saying "the water and the wood became equal." "The water and the wood became equal" means the water and the wood became level. But what is the meaning of this statement? It means that they place a piece of wood, and when the water reaches it, they stop draining the pond. In the beginning, they would fill it with water and drain it with buckets or other means. When the water reached a piece of wood placed as a mark, they said "the water and the wood became equal," meaning they became level.
The fourth is that it is standalone, and its meaning is perfection. From this is His saying, the Exalted:
And when he attained his full strength and was [mentally] mature
ولما بلغ أشده واستوىThe Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرحمن على العرش استوىThe student: No.
The Shaykh : It did not come with "upon" after it.
The student: It is attributed to...
The Shaykh : Pay attention, my brother, it did not come with "upon" after it. We say, but it came before it. Therefore, "upon the Throne He rose." The prepositional phrase and the noun in the genitive case are connected.
The student: To "Istiwa'."
The Shaykh : To "Istiwa'," but it was placed before it for specification and restriction. Okay.
The questioner : We say combined.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : We say combined, we do not say after it.
The Shaykh : Yes, combined, whether before it or after it. Okay. Then, when the author (may Allah have mercy on him) finished mentioning the verses of Istiwa', which are seven clear and explicit verses, he began to mention the knowledge. But some people asked, saying: If we say "He created the heavens and then He rose," does it imply that before that He was not elevated? Does it imply that before that He was not elevated? Is this correct?
The student: No, it is not correct.
The Shaykh : Look, he says the verse is "He created, then He rose," and this implies that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not elevated. So the answer is:
The student: It does not necessitate it.
The Shaykh : It does not imply, it does not imply. Yes, it indicates that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not settled upon the Throne. And settling upon the Throne is more specific than general elevation, because settling upon the Throne is a specific elevation related to the Throne, and elevation is comprehensive over all created things. His elevation (Mighty and Majestic) is established for Him eternally and forever. He has not ceased to be elevated, but He is not elevated upon the Throne. He is not elevated upon the Throne by His Essence, meaning the elevation that is specific to the Throne. And I think the issue is clear. Therefore, it does not follow from His not settling upon His Throne that He is not elevated. Rather, He is elevated, and then after creating the heavens and the earth, He had a specific elevation upon the Throne. He had a specific elevation upon the Throne.
Okay, if I say we understand from the noble verse that when He created the heavens and the earth, He was not elevated upon the Throne, but before creating the heavens and the earth, was He settled upon the Throne or not? We say Allah knows best about that.
Okay, a second question: Is the Throne before the heavens and the earth or after them?
The student: Before
The Shaykh : Before the heavens and the earth. Yes, as Allah, the Exalted, said:
and His Throne had been upon water
وكان عرشه على الماءThe author now began with the verses of elevation.