The Shaykh's remarks on Ibn Hazm's Salafiyyah (a discussion)
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh : Do you believe that he is Salafi in creed?
The student : Ibn Hazm.
The Shaykh : Otherwise, who are we talking about?
The student : O Shaykh, I know his creed; he interprets [the texts], but in his interpretation he says that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : Why don't you answer my question?
The student : He is not Salafi in creed.
The Shaykh : That is the answer. Why didn't you answer like that immediately?
The student : He is not of the Salafi creed.
The Shaykh : He learns the Zahir [school].
The student : A lawful methodology.
Another student: Also, O our Shaykh, Ibn Hazm's words regarding the issue of prayer, or prayer.
The Shaykh : I want to comment on your statement that he interprets, but he says Allah has a Hand.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between him and the Mu'attilah and the Jahmiyyah?
The student : They also say that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : So that statement frightened me.
The student : But they interpret [the texts].
The Shaykh : It frightened me, and he interprets. May Allah guide you by your testimony.
The student : He, O our Shaykh, says that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : Yes, he says as He willed, Lord of the worlds.
The Shaykh : O my brother, the others also say that Allah has a Hand.
The student : But he does not affirm it with the Salafi affirmation.
Another student: ...
The Shaykh : No, let's see. I still don't understand. What is the difference between Ibn Hazm, who affirms the Qur'anic text and interprets it, and the others, the Mu'attilah? Do they deny the Qur'anic text? You will say no.
The student : He, O our Shaykh, is distinguished from them.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : He interprets, O our Shaykh. He affirms, he affirms and interprets.
The Shaykh : You didn't answer me. May Allah guide you.
The student : He affirms, O our Shaykh, he affirms the text.
The Shaykh: There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : They affirm, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : What is this? This is my question. May Allah guide you. If you said "blonde" like my story, I would excuse you, because blondes... and so on.
The student : They affirm, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How many times will you repeat it, my brother? This is not the answer to my question. I lost my question, as you did before more than once. What was my question?
The student : Do the Asha'irah affirm or do they interpret?
The Shaykh : I did not mention the Asha'irah. I did not mention the Asha'irah.
The student : You mentioned, O our Shaykh, that Ibn Hazm affirms the text.
The Shaykh : Repeat your question. May Allah guide you. Or say you forgot, because I was busy with my wrong answer to the correct question.
The student : Repeat your question, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I say: Do those who interpret, or the Mu'attilah, when they interpret the Qur'anic text, do they deny this text?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : That is my answer. So what is the difference between them and Ibn Hazm? This is what I didn't understand. I need to understand.
The student : Yes, he brings the text and says Allah has a Hand, but he takes... excuse me, O our Shaykh, I am digressing in my speech. He says Allah has a Hand, but he does not affirm it with the Salafi affirmation.
The Shaykh: There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : And he does not go to the interpretation, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah. What would he do?
The student : This one says Allah has a Hand. We do not say... I mean, he does not interpret it. He does not interpret. He says Allah has a Hand. The Asha'irah interpret, saying the Hand is power.
The Shaykh : Fine, he says: The Most Merciful rose above the Throne.
The student : He says: The Most Merciful. We believe that the Most Merciful rose above the Throne.
The Shaykh: Good.
The student : But.
The Shaykh : The whole difference is that they say we need to move on now, and they say that "rose" means "exalted"?
The student : He says.
The Shaykh : No, do not defend Ibn Hazm, because then you will confirm to Abu Mu'adh and others, like my story, that you are a Hazmi.
The student : Far be it from that, O our Shaykh. I will bring a closer example now.
The Shaykh : I want this example. This is the example you mentioned, and I hope your statement is correct and our understanding is wrong. You say that Ibn Hazm says "rose" means "exalted," and that he affirms the above-ness of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) over all creation, an above-ness befitting His greatness and majesty. Are you sure of this attribution to Ibn Hazm?
The student : I am not sure now, O our Shaykh. I am not recalling it, but the second example comes to mind now. The second example in affirmation, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh: And that is...
The student : And that he says: We believe and affirm that Allah has fingers.
Another student: Peace be upon you.
The student : Two fingers, as mentioned in the hadith.
The Shaykh : And peace be upon you.
The student : As mentioned in the hadith. The hadith is:, and the second hadith, I meant the second hadith. May Allah reward you. I am citing this hadith now. He says: We believe that Allah has two fingers.
The Shaykh : And what do the Asha'irah say?
The student : O our Shaykh, he does not interpret it as power now.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : The Asha'irah say.
The Shaykh : He is not answering. He is not answering. Like this, now we have to argue with you. May Allah forgive you. What do the Asha'irah say?
The student : They affirm the fingers.
The Shaykh : Fine, so O man, understand the subject well. There is no Muslim on the face of the earth who says: No, Allah did not say:[Taha 20:5], the Messenger did not say: . No one dares to deny this except the misguided who deviate from Islam, who follow the Jahmiyyah, and many of the scholars of the Salaf declared them disbelievers, and so on. As for the Maturidiyyah and the Asha'irah, there are no people among them who say "he did not say this" or "he did not say that." Do you know that the Asha'irah and the Maturidiyyah say the Qur'an is the speech of Allah? Do you know?
The student : They say.
The Shaykh: All right.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : And Ibn Hazm says the same, necessarily.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Fine, and what is the speech they believe in?
The student : Self-existent speech.
The Shaykh : Fine, what about Ibn Hazm?
The student : No, he does not say self-existent speech, but the speech of Allah in reality.
The Shaykh : What does "in reality" mean?
The student : The speech of Allah by which He spoke is not created.
The Shaykh : For Him, it is not created. And they say: It is not created.
The student : He does not interpret it with the interpretation of the Asha'irah and the Maturidiyyah, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : O my brother, it is permissible that he has another interpretation. The important thing now is: does he say that the divine speech is heard?
The student : Yes, yes, and he argues with these verses.
The Shaykh : If Allah wills, my mind is clear of this verse. Which verse is it?
The student : The speech of Allah to Musa (peace be upon him):.
The Shaykh : Fine, do the other group deny the verse?
The student : They affirm it.
The Shaykh : He did not answer.
The student : They do not deny it. They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : They do not deny it.
Another student: ... but I will ask you about ... .
The student : Yes, they do not deny it, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : May Allah guide you. You are going to make me dye my beard black, heh heh.
The student : They do not deny it, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Fine, why don't you answer, O my brother?
The student : They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : Why this haste?
The student : They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : Fine, when they do not deny it, what do they do with its meaning?
The student : They interpret the meaning.
The Shaykh : So we ask now: The creed of the Salaf is known; the speech of Allah is heard with letters and sound.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Ah, is Ibn Hazm like this in this issue?
The student : He does not enter into this last detail. It is not...
The Shaykh : I am asking you.
The student : It is not so.
The Shaykh : I am asking you.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Ibn Hazm says like this: The speech of Allah is heard with letters and sound. Say yes, say no.
The student: No.
The Shaykh : That's it... That's it. You want to give a lecture? Go ahead. We are your listeners.
The student : Ibn Hazm.
The Shaykh : Otherwise, who are we talking about?
The student : O Shaykh, I know his creed; he interprets [the texts], but in his interpretation he says that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : Why don't you answer my question?
The student : He is not Salafi in creed.
The Shaykh : That is the answer. Why didn't you answer like that immediately?
The student : He is not of the Salafi creed.
The Shaykh : He learns the Zahir [school].
The student : A lawful methodology.
Another student: Also, O our Shaykh, Ibn Hazm's words regarding the issue of prayer, or prayer.
The Shaykh : I want to comment on your statement that he interprets, but he says Allah has a Hand.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between him and the Mu'attilah and the Jahmiyyah?
The student : They also say that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : So that statement frightened me.
The student : But they interpret [the texts].
The Shaykh : It frightened me, and he interprets. May Allah guide you by your testimony.
The student : He, O our Shaykh, says that Allah has a Hand.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : Yes, he says as He willed, Lord of the worlds.
The Shaykh : O my brother, the others also say that Allah has a Hand.
The student : But he does not affirm it with the Salafi affirmation.
Another student: ...
The Shaykh : No, let's see. I still don't understand. What is the difference between Ibn Hazm, who affirms the Qur'anic text and interprets it, and the others, the Mu'attilah? Do they deny the Qur'anic text? You will say no.
The student : He, O our Shaykh, is distinguished from them.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : He interprets, O our Shaykh. He affirms, he affirms and interprets.
The Shaykh : You didn't answer me. May Allah guide you.
The student : He affirms, O our Shaykh, he affirms the text.
The Shaykh: There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : They affirm, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : What is this? This is my question. May Allah guide you. If you said "blonde" like my story, I would excuse you, because blondes... and so on.
The student : They affirm, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How many times will you repeat it, my brother? This is not the answer to my question. I lost my question, as you did before more than once. What was my question?
The student : Do the Asha'irah affirm or do they interpret?
The Shaykh : I did not mention the Asha'irah. I did not mention the Asha'irah.
The student : You mentioned, O our Shaykh, that Ibn Hazm affirms the text.
The Shaykh : Repeat your question. May Allah guide you. Or say you forgot, because I was busy with my wrong answer to the correct question.
The student : Repeat your question, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I say: Do those who interpret, or the Mu'attilah, when they interpret the Qur'anic text, do they deny this text?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : That is my answer. So what is the difference between them and Ibn Hazm? This is what I didn't understand. I need to understand.
The student : Yes, he brings the text and says Allah has a Hand, but he takes... excuse me, O our Shaykh, I am digressing in my speech. He says Allah has a Hand, but he does not affirm it with the Salafi affirmation.
The Shaykh: There is no power nor strength except with Allah.
The student : And he does not go to the interpretation, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah. What would he do?
The student : This one says Allah has a Hand. We do not say... I mean, he does not interpret it. He does not interpret. He says Allah has a Hand. The Asha'irah interpret, saying the Hand is power.
The Shaykh : Fine, he says: The Most Merciful rose above the Throne.
The student : He says: The Most Merciful. We believe that the Most Merciful rose above the Throne.
The Shaykh: Good.
The student : But.
The Shaykh : The whole difference is that they say we need to move on now, and they say that "rose" means "exalted"?
The student : He says.
The Shaykh : No, do not defend Ibn Hazm, because then you will confirm to Abu Mu'adh and others, like my story, that you are a Hazmi.
The student : Far be it from that, O our Shaykh. I will bring a closer example now.
The Shaykh : I want this example. This is the example you mentioned, and I hope your statement is correct and our understanding is wrong. You say that Ibn Hazm says "rose" means "exalted," and that he affirms the above-ness of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) over all creation, an above-ness befitting His greatness and majesty. Are you sure of this attribution to Ibn Hazm?
The student : I am not sure now, O our Shaykh. I am not recalling it, but the second example comes to mind now. The second example in affirmation, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh: And that is...
The student : And that he says: We believe and affirm that Allah has fingers.
Another student: Peace be upon you.
The student : Two fingers, as mentioned in the hadith.
The Shaykh : And peace be upon you.
The student : As mentioned in the hadith. The hadith is:
The heart of the man is between two of the fingers of Allah
أن قلب أن قلب الرجل بين أصبعين من أصابع اللهThe Shaykh : And what do the Asha'irah say?
The student : O our Shaykh, he does not interpret it as power now.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : The Asha'irah say.
The Shaykh : He is not answering. He is not answering. Like this, now we have to argue with you. May Allah forgive you. What do the Asha'irah say?
The student : They affirm the fingers.
The Shaykh : Fine, so O man, understand the subject well. There is no Muslim on the face of the earth who says: No, Allah did not say:
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىAllah descends in every night
ينزل الله في كلِّ ليلةThe student : They say.
The Shaykh: All right.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : And Ibn Hazm says the same, necessarily.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Fine, and what is the speech they believe in?
The student : Self-existent speech.
The Shaykh : Fine, what about Ibn Hazm?
The student : No, he does not say self-existent speech, but the speech of Allah in reality.
The Shaykh : What does "in reality" mean?
The student : The speech of Allah by which He spoke is not created.
The Shaykh : For Him, it is not created. And they say: It is not created.
The student : He does not interpret it with the interpretation of the Asha'irah and the Maturidiyyah, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : O my brother, it is permissible that he has another interpretation. The important thing now is: does he say that the divine speech is heard?
The student : Yes, yes, and he argues with these verses.
The Shaykh : If Allah wills, my mind is clear of this verse. Which verse is it?
The student : The speech of Allah to Musa (peace be upon him):
And Allah spoke to Musa directly
وَكَلَّمَ اللَّهُ مُوسَى تَكْلِيمًاThe Shaykh : Fine, do the other group deny the verse?
The student : They affirm it.
The Shaykh : He did not answer.
The student : They do not deny it. They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : He is not answering.
The student : They do not deny it.
Another student: ... but I will ask you about ... .
The student : Yes, they do not deny it, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : May Allah guide you. You are going to make me dye my beard black, heh heh.
The student : They do not deny it, O our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Fine, why don't you answer, O my brother?
The student : They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : Why this haste?
The student : They do not deny it.
The Shaykh : Fine, when they do not deny it, what do they do with its meaning?
The student : They interpret the meaning.
The Shaykh : So we ask now: The creed of the Salaf is known; the speech of Allah is heard with letters and sound.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Ah, is Ibn Hazm like this in this issue?
The student : He does not enter into this last detail. It is not...
The Shaykh : I am asking you.
The student : It is not so.
The Shaykh : I am asking you.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Ibn Hazm says like this: The speech of Allah is heard with letters and sound. Say yes, say no.
The student: No.
The Shaykh : That's it... That's it. You want to give a lecture? Go ahead. We are your listeners.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.