The Book of Jihad, Military Expeditions, and Authority-09a

The reciter: Ahmad ibn 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Wahb ibn Muslim narrated to us, my uncle 'Abdullah ibn Wahb narrated to us, 'Amr ibn al-Harith narrated to us, Bukayr narrated to me, from Busr ibn Sa'id, from Janadah ibn Abi Umayyah, who said: .

The Shaykh : We have previously spoken about this hadith, except that this one contains an addition: . These conditions are necessary. First: that you see, and seeing means knowing. As for suspicion, it is not permissible for us to dispute authority with its rightful people based on what we suspect to be disbelief; rather, we must know that it is disbelief. This requires precision in the conditions of declaring someone a disbeliever. So we first look at whether this statement made by the imam or this action is disbelief or not. This requires clarification in the evidence from the Book and the Sunnah.
Second: Does the declaration of disbelief apply to this man, the one in authority? Because it may be disbelief, but when applied to this person, he is not a disbeliever on account of it, due to the presence of a doubtful matter or a figurative interpretation.
An example of this is that some later scholars said: Matters of this world are not part of worship in any way, and they return to the independent legal reasoning of people. They have the right to decide something that contradicts what came in the Book and the Sunnah, because what came in the Book and the Sunnah is only a command for a people to whom this ruling is suitable. Matters differ, times differ, and places differ. This is not of the specific right of Allah in which a person cannot act. These are worldly matters. Then they cite as evidence for this: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) arrived in Madinah and found the people pollinating the date palms. They pollinate the female palm with the date flower of the male palm. They take the date flower and take from it two or three tassels and place them in the cluster of the date palm, so the fruit becomes good by the permission of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). If they do not do this, the dates become spoiled.
So the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), when he saw them climbing every date palm and then coming down, then climbing again and then coming down, said: What is the benefit? You are tormenting yourselves. So they left it off. In that year, the date palms withered; they became dry stalks from which no benefit could be derived. So they came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) complaining to him, and he said: .
Some of the later scholars took the view that worldly matters have no relation to commands and prohibitions, so they acted as they wished or as they saw to be in the public benefit. So they permitted investment riba (usury or interest), and they said: The forbidden riba is exploitative riba, which involves the exploitation of the poor's money by the rich. If the riba benefits both the lender and the one from whom the riba is taken, there is no harm in it because it is a public benefit. And they said: A person has the right to establish a factory and go to the bank and say: Give me ten million for ten years for fifteen million. The bank benefits by five, and the investor benefits by establishing factories, from which he benefits and the people benefit, and these are public benefits.
If the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: , then this is among our public benefits. And they also said that Allah the Exalted said: , and there is no injustice in this. It occurred by the choice of the lender and by the choice of the investor, so there is no injustice in it. Therefore, it is lawful. If they presented this to the one in authority, and he considered riba lawful based on this interpretation.