What is the ruling if a man caresses his wife and feels the flow of semen, but he does not ejaculate during the caressing?
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The Shaykh : All right, here comes a question.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Does this caressing not lead to intercourse?
The questioner : We will ask him and find out!
The Shaykh : It is a problem, all right.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : Let us say: caressing is a habit, and you are married like me, so he gets an erection, right?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, so that is what you mean?
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh, he gets an erection.
The Shaykh : He gets an erection, and he feels the desire for the flowing water?!
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : But he does not see it?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, does he see it when he urinates?!
The questioner : He does not see it, but the Shaykh says: I do not see it, and it comes out with the urine, but he does not see it, but he wants to ask, for example, if he saw it?
The Shaykh : Say it, my brother, say it.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : He does not see it, not during the caressing.
The questioner : Nor when he urinates.
The Shaykh : And so? How did he know that it came out with the urine?
The questioner : He knew because the doctor told him, because the path of the semen was converted to the path of the urine, so when you ejaculate, it comes out with the urine, but you do not see it, meaning you complete your desire and everything, and it comes out, but this transfers to the urine, to the place of the urine, and it comes out with the urine when you urinate normally, but you do not see it!
The Shaykh : My brother, the matter is still unclear, may Allah reward you!!
The questioner : Yes, that is why I told him, Shaykh, that if you would write it to me in a clearer form, that would be better.
The Shaykh : Yes, because here, little by little, something is being revealed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : It has been revealed to us that during the caressing, he gets an erection as if he were having intercourse, right?
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : But he does not see the flowing water?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Likewise, when he urinates, he does not see the flowing water!!
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And without an erection, because the doctor told him so and so.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Now I am asking a new question, and surely you do not have the answer to it: Does he urinate immediately after the caressing, or after a short or long time following the caressing? You do not know the answer!
The questioner : The answer, let him say it.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : It is after a long period.
The Shaykh : Ah, after a long period.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So this flowing water, when it came out of him during the caressing, it is as if it poured into the bladder.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So when he urinates, even after a long time, this flowing water comes out with the urine, but it comes out without an erection, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Ah, so in my opinion: the ghusl is obligatory upon the erection and the feeling of desire during the caressing.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : As for when he urinates, the ghusl is not obligatory upon him.
The questioner : Good, Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Is it clear?
The questioner : Clear, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh : If there is nothing new, then this is the answer...
The questioner : If Allah wills, I will mention it to him. I went to him yesterday, my Shaykh, and I mentioned the answer to him, and I said: I do not know why people do not ask about such things!! And I would like to know, meaning the Shaykh’s opinion, not just for my situation, but for the future, and for people, and so on, and I promise that the Shaykh is a mujtahid and a renewer!
The Shaykh : May Allah preserve him.
The questioner : So it is necessary, meaning, that his opinion be available to us, so I told him: Since the matter is like this, my Shaykh, I hope you would write the question for me in a very clear form so that, for example, the Shaykh can be asked about it on a tape, and so on, so that everyone benefits without mentioning the questioner...
The Shaykh : Good, if Allah wills.
The questioner : If Allah wills.
The Shaykh : In any case, is the answer clear to you?!
The questioner : If Allah wills, with His permission, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Can you summarize it for me?
The questioner : The answer, my Shaykh, summarized, as I understood it: that it is obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when he feels the semen coming out of him in a state of erection during the caressing, and it is not obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when it comes out with the urine, when he goes to urinate.
The Shaykh : That is correct.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : But there is a continuation that was mentioned earlier.
The questioner : Yes, the issue of penetration.
The Shaykh: No.
The questioner : Huh?!
The Shaykh : It was mentioned incidentally, and that is: Why do I say: No, -and this is important for the professor- why do I say: It is not obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when he urinates, even though it is most likely, based on the doctor’s telling him, that the flowing water comes out with the urine after the operation?!
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Why do I say: It is not obligatory? Because it is not obligatory unless it comes out with desire.
The questioner : Yes, meaning like the one who carries a heavy load and it comes out of him without desire.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : So I hope you do not forget this.
The questioner : If Allah wills, with His permission, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : And there is a hadith that says:.
The questioner : Yes, if you expose?
The Shaykh : The water, then perform ghusl!
The questioner : Then perform ghusl, if Allah wills, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Meaning, this means: If you expel the flowing water with force, then perform ghusl.
The questioner : If Allah wills.
The Shaykh : And this is what happens to him during the caressing.
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Or does it happen during urination?
The questioner : Yes, good, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Is it clear?
The questioner : Clear, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh: Peace be upon you.
The questioner : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah, my Shaykh.
The questioner : Excuse me, if you allow me, you said: When it comes out during the caressing with desire, it does not come out, it settles in the bladder, is the ghusl obligatory upon him or not?
The Shaykh : And what did you hear, what did you hear?
The questioner : You said: That this is not clear, my question, excuse me?
The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, what did you hear me asking you?
The questioner : That when he urinates, it comes out.
The Shaykh : Do not repeat, what did you hear, is the ghusl obligatory or not obligatory? One word and cover it, did you hear obligatory or not obligatory?!
The questioner : What I heard was obligatory!
The Shaykh : But that is the answer.
The Shaykh : This is found in "Sunan al-Nasa'i" from the hadith of Abu ibn Ka'b.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And others?
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : Welcome.
The questioner : Women, not like menstruation, meaning.
The Shaykh : How can that be?! But one of the writers in the Arabi magazine understood the direct intercourse here to mean:.
The questioner :[Al-Baqarah 2:187] .
The Shaykh : Ah, so they demolished the hadith completely.
The questioner: Allah is the Greatest!
The Shaykh : But it is less than that, this is correct, clear?
The questioner : Is that clear?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Does this caressing not lead to intercourse?
The questioner : We will ask him and find out!
The Shaykh : It is a problem, all right.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : Let us say: caressing is a habit, and you are married like me, so he gets an erection, right?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, so that is what you mean?
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh, he gets an erection.
The Shaykh : He gets an erection, and he feels the desire for the flowing water?!
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : But he does not see it?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, does he see it when he urinates?!
The questioner : He does not see it, but the Shaykh says: I do not see it, and it comes out with the urine, but he does not see it, but he wants to ask, for example, if he saw it?
The Shaykh : Say it, my brother, say it.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : He does not see it, not during the caressing.
The questioner : Nor when he urinates.
The Shaykh : And so? How did he know that it came out with the urine?
The questioner : He knew because the doctor told him, because the path of the semen was converted to the path of the urine, so when you ejaculate, it comes out with the urine, but you do not see it, meaning you complete your desire and everything, and it comes out, but this transfers to the urine, to the place of the urine, and it comes out with the urine when you urinate normally, but you do not see it!
The Shaykh : My brother, the matter is still unclear, may Allah reward you!!
The questioner : Yes, that is why I told him, Shaykh, that if you would write it to me in a clearer form, that would be better.
The Shaykh : Yes, because here, little by little, something is being revealed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : It has been revealed to us that during the caressing, he gets an erection as if he were having intercourse, right?
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : But he does not see the flowing water?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Likewise, when he urinates, he does not see the flowing water!!
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And without an erection, because the doctor told him so and so.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Now I am asking a new question, and surely you do not have the answer to it: Does he urinate immediately after the caressing, or after a short or long time following the caressing? You do not know the answer!
The questioner : The answer, let him say it.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : It is after a long period.
The Shaykh : Ah, after a long period.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So this flowing water, when it came out of him during the caressing, it is as if it poured into the bladder.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So when he urinates, even after a long time, this flowing water comes out with the urine, but it comes out without an erection, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Ah, so in my opinion: the ghusl is obligatory upon the erection and the feeling of desire during the caressing.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : As for when he urinates, the ghusl is not obligatory upon him.
The questioner : Good, Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Is it clear?
The questioner : Clear, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh : If there is nothing new, then this is the answer...
The questioner : If Allah wills, I will mention it to him. I went to him yesterday, my Shaykh, and I mentioned the answer to him, and I said: I do not know why people do not ask about such things!! And I would like to know, meaning the Shaykh’s opinion, not just for my situation, but for the future, and for people, and so on, and I promise that the Shaykh is a mujtahid and a renewer!
The Shaykh : May Allah preserve him.
The questioner : So it is necessary, meaning, that his opinion be available to us, so I told him: Since the matter is like this, my Shaykh, I hope you would write the question for me in a very clear form so that, for example, the Shaykh can be asked about it on a tape, and so on, so that everyone benefits without mentioning the questioner...
The Shaykh : Good, if Allah wills.
The questioner : If Allah wills.
The Shaykh : In any case, is the answer clear to you?!
The questioner : If Allah wills, with His permission, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Can you summarize it for me?
The questioner : The answer, my Shaykh, summarized, as I understood it: that it is obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when he feels the semen coming out of him in a state of erection during the caressing, and it is not obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when it comes out with the urine, when he goes to urinate.
The Shaykh : That is correct.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : But there is a continuation that was mentioned earlier.
The questioner : Yes, the issue of penetration.
The Shaykh: No.
The questioner : Huh?!
The Shaykh : It was mentioned incidentally, and that is: Why do I say: No, -and this is important for the professor- why do I say: It is not obligatory upon him to perform ghusl when he urinates, even though it is most likely, based on the doctor’s telling him, that the flowing water comes out with the urine after the operation?!
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Why do I say: It is not obligatory? Because it is not obligatory unless it comes out with desire.
The questioner : Yes, meaning like the one who carries a heavy load and it comes out of him without desire.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : So I hope you do not forget this.
The questioner : If Allah wills, with His permission, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : And there is a hadith that says:
If you expose the water, then perform ghusl
إذا فضحت الماء فاغتسلThe questioner : Yes, if you expose?
The Shaykh : The water, then perform ghusl!
The questioner : Then perform ghusl, if Allah wills, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Meaning, this means: If you expel the flowing water with force, then perform ghusl.
The questioner : If Allah wills.
The Shaykh : And this is what happens to him during the caressing.
The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Or does it happen during urination?
The questioner : Yes, good, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Is it clear?
The questioner : Clear, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh: Peace be upon you.
The questioner : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah, my Shaykh.
The questioner : Excuse me, if you allow me, you said: When it comes out during the caressing with desire, it does not come out, it settles in the bladder, is the ghusl obligatory upon him or not?
The Shaykh : And what did you hear, what did you hear?
The questioner : You said: That this is not clear, my question, excuse me?
The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, what did you hear me asking you?
The questioner : That when he urinates, it comes out.
The Shaykh : Do not repeat, what did you hear, is the ghusl obligatory or not obligatory? One word and cover it, did you hear obligatory or not obligatory?!
The questioner : What I heard was obligatory!
The Shaykh : But that is the answer.
The Shaykh : This is found in "Sunan al-Nasa'i" from the hadith of Abu ibn Ka'b.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And others?
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : Welcome.
The questioner : Women, not like menstruation, meaning.
The Shaykh : How can that be?! But one of the writers in the Arabi magazine understood the direct intercourse here to mean:
And do not have direct intercourse with them
وَلَا تُبَاشِرُوهُنَّThe questioner :
as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques
وَأَنْتُمْ عَاكِفُونَ فِي الْمَسَاجِدِThe Shaykh : Ah, so they demolished the hadith completely.
The questioner: Allah is the Greatest!
The Shaykh : But it is less than that, this is correct, clear?
The questioner : Is that clear?
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.