Continuation of the Debate: Is There a Difference Between the Judge Who Ruled Once Against What Allah Revealed and the One Who Drafts the Constitution?
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The questioner : The example I presented regarding the judge, the ruling authority in an Islamic society in an Islamic state, who ruled once against the law of Allah (Mighty and Majestic).
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : As for the ruler who rules day and night with a constitution and so on... and persists and so on, does that not mean he is expelled from the religion? I mean, even if he did not... did he not practically deem it permissible? Did he deem it permissible?
The Shaykh : The answer, my dear professor, I want to understand from you: are you merely following me, or do you agree with me?
The questioner : I follow you in the truth, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh : We did not differ, but this which you are hearing, are you following me in it, or do you believe it is truth and correctness?
The questioner : I believe it is truth in this matter.
The Shaykh : We are here, let us leave aside the other matters.
The questioner : ... the matter of the judge.
The Shaykh : Fine, you are with me on this.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : You are not just following me.
The questioner: No, no.
The Shaykh : Very good, I have clarified this and it has become clear, let us proceed now.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : I ask you to proceed with me on the original topic. If you did not merely follow me but agreed with me that the reason we do not declare a disbeliever the one who ruled against what Allah revealed in a single instance is because he believes in the law of Allah, but he followed his desire and opposed the law of Allah in action, not in belief, then if you have agreed with me on this, I ask you to note the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever, both in the affirmative and the negative.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Is my speech clear?
The questioner : I note it, but truly.
The Shaykh : No, I am asking you, is it clear?
The questioner : I note the cause.
The Shaykh : I want to proceed, my professor. I do not want to build my research on the edge of a cliff, for example. Here, I was brief in my explanation, and eventually it will become clear that I did not understand, or, without blame, that you did not understand, and both... for this or that. I want to be secure, so I say, is it clear? When you say it is clear, it does not mean you are finished. I want to build on the clarity, so I ask that in everything you ask in the future, or in other examples that come to your mind, you note the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever. It has become clear that the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever is disbelief in the law of Allah in the heart, and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever is belief in the law of Allah in the heart. Is this clear?
The questioner : Is that clear?
The Shaykh : Take a second step.
The questioner : Please allow me, this point is not clear.
The Shaykh : It is clear to the professor, and you must clarify it afterwards, and this is a difficult matter...
The questioner : There is no objection, professor.
The Shaykh : There is no objection, please go ahead, no problem.
The questioner : There is a point, meaning, if you went on a tour to one of the villages.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Are you presenting to the brothers present what you have, or are they asking you about everything? We want you to treat us in this way.
The Shaykh : ... Glory be to Allah.
The questioner : I mean, Brother Awni, no... from my question.
The Shaykh : I did not... my professor, before you advise me with this, and may Allah reward you with good.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : I said, please go ahead.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Before you advise me with this.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But what I observe is that I might be, for example, in a society with someone who has a high degree, and below that, and below that, and the common people. You find the cultured man asking me the second, third, and fourth question, almost dominating the session. I say to him, enough, my brother, I want to give a share to someone else. I say to him, enough, it does not mean I do not want to hear his question, but I see that wisdom requires that. So likewise, when I say to the professor here, when he said: I did not understand, or I do not want to waste my time understanding every person and repeating my phrase time after time. Now here, the brother says he did not understand. Maybe this is from our brothers, and another says he did not understand. Or what, do I want to drone on around a certain point?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : No, please allow me, my sir, this is not from the principles. The principles are that the most deserving people, the most knowledgeable people, the most understanding people in the subject, should take charge of understanding the subject, and then, as he (peace and blessings be upon him) said, let the witness convey to the absent one.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I beg you, I beg you, I am offering my excuse, otherwise I am going with the Syrian proverb: "If you do not come with me, come with me." I am offering my excuse. Why am I saying to him... complete here. So I am with you in advance. Please, my brother, what did not become clear to you?
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : As for the ruler who rules day and night with a constitution and so on... and persists and so on, does that not mean he is expelled from the religion? I mean, even if he did not... did he not practically deem it permissible? Did he deem it permissible?
The Shaykh : The answer, my dear professor, I want to understand from you: are you merely following me, or do you agree with me?
The questioner : I follow you in the truth, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh : We did not differ, but this which you are hearing, are you following me in it, or do you believe it is truth and correctness?
The questioner : I believe it is truth in this matter.
The Shaykh : We are here, let us leave aside the other matters.
The questioner : ... the matter of the judge.
The Shaykh : Fine, you are with me on this.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : You are not just following me.
The questioner: No, no.
The Shaykh : Very good, I have clarified this and it has become clear, let us proceed now.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : I ask you to proceed with me on the original topic. If you did not merely follow me but agreed with me that the reason we do not declare a disbeliever the one who ruled against what Allah revealed in a single instance is because he believes in the law of Allah, but he followed his desire and opposed the law of Allah in action, not in belief, then if you have agreed with me on this, I ask you to note the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever, both in the affirmative and the negative.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Is my speech clear?
The questioner : I note it, but truly.
The Shaykh : No, I am asking you, is it clear?
The questioner : I note the cause.
The Shaykh : I want to proceed, my professor. I do not want to build my research on the edge of a cliff, for example. Here, I was brief in my explanation, and eventually it will become clear that I did not understand, or, without blame, that you did not understand, and both... for this or that. I want to be secure, so I say, is it clear? When you say it is clear, it does not mean you are finished. I want to build on the clarity, so I ask that in everything you ask in the future, or in other examples that come to your mind, you note the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever. It has become clear that the cause of declaring someone a disbeliever is disbelief in the law of Allah in the heart, and the cause of not declaring someone a disbeliever is belief in the law of Allah in the heart. Is this clear?
The questioner : Is that clear?
The Shaykh : Take a second step.
The questioner : Please allow me, this point is not clear.
The Shaykh : It is clear to the professor, and you must clarify it afterwards, and this is a difficult matter...
The questioner : There is no objection, professor.
The Shaykh : There is no objection, please go ahead, no problem.
The questioner : There is a point, meaning, if you went on a tour to one of the villages.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Are you presenting to the brothers present what you have, or are they asking you about everything? We want you to treat us in this way.
The Shaykh : ... Glory be to Allah.
The questioner : I mean, Brother Awni, no... from my question.
The Shaykh : I did not... my professor, before you advise me with this, and may Allah reward you with good.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : I said, please go ahead.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Before you advise me with this.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : But what I observe is that I might be, for example, in a society with someone who has a high degree, and below that, and below that, and the common people. You find the cultured man asking me the second, third, and fourth question, almost dominating the session. I say to him, enough, my brother, I want to give a share to someone else. I say to him, enough, it does not mean I do not want to hear his question, but I see that wisdom requires that. So likewise, when I say to the professor here, when he said: I did not understand, or I do not want to waste my time understanding every person and repeating my phrase time after time. Now here, the brother says he did not understand. Maybe this is from our brothers, and another says he did not understand. Or what, do I want to drone on around a certain point?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : No, please allow me, my sir, this is not from the principles. The principles are that the most deserving people, the most knowledgeable people, the most understanding people in the subject, should take charge of understanding the subject, and then, as he (peace and blessings be upon him) said, let the witness convey to the absent one.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I beg you, I beg you, I am offering my excuse, otherwise I am going with the Syrian proverb: "If you do not come with me, come with me." I am offering my excuse. Why am I saying to him... complete here. So I am with you in advance. Please, my brother, what did not become clear to you?
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.