How is the argument established against the children of Adam through the testimony in the world of the spirits, when they do not remember it?

The questioner : This is an important issue, O Shaykh, related to the issue of the excuse of ignorance, and it is the taking of the offspring of Adam from his back, as mentioned in the verse and as confirmed by many authentic hadiths.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : The discussion now, or the question, is not about the authenticity of the hadith, but rather: since we do not remember that event, how is the argument established against the children of Adam? If the argument is not established by it, is it the fitrah, the fitrah of creation? And what is the relation of that to the ahl al-fatra that I mentioned a moment ago?

The Shaykh : What is the relation of that?

The questioner : To the belief of the ahl al-fatra... the prophets.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : I mean, they fell into disbelief and practiced disbelief, and they did not remember that taking, that taking of the offspring from the back of Adam.

The Shaykh : Yes, they did not remember it. So do you think that their not remembering it is an excuse for them, or is it an argument against them?

The questioner : No, no, neither this nor that.

The Shaykh: Then.

The questioner : I see. So what is the position of the fitrah then? If we take the fitrah to be the interpretation of that taking, or the thing that exists in every son of Adam now as an effect of that taking, how did it manifest? What was the effect of the fitrah in their actions, given that they fell into shirk?

The Shaykh : The effect of the fitrah, my brother, appears in the person whose fitrah has not been corrupted, and this is a factual reality. The effect of the fitrah and the effect of that testimony mentioned in the Qur'an and the hadiths you referred to appear in every person who lives with his fitrah. However, there is no indication that this fitrah does not get corrupted or deviate; on the contrary, the hadith that mentions the fitrah indicates that something may befall this fitrah that takes it out of its fitrah and its nature. This is when he (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ; so the fathers compel their children to practice a religion different from what they were upon with their fitrah. So when this fitrah is corrupted, the Shari'ah of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) comes, and it is concomitant with His sending of the messengers and the revelation of the books, to return these strayers who have deviated from the fitrah back to their fitrah. So whoever responds to the mission of the messengers and the wisdom of the revelation of the books returns to his fitrah and is among the saved. And whoever persists and is arrogant is among the perished. So there is no contradiction between that creation called the world of the spirits and the establishment by the Lord of the Worlds of the argument against them by His saying: "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes, I am." It does not mean a contradiction between this creation at that time and our forgetting of that argument which the Lord of the Worlds established against them, and the possibility of a person deviating from the fitrah and his need thereafter for one who reminds him of the fitrah he was upon. And that is nothing but the revelation of the books and the sending of the messengers. So the ahl al-fatra are those who deviated from their fitrah and fell into misguidance, so they were in need of one who brings them good news and warns them, and those are the messengers and the prophets. Have I answered your question?

The questioner : Yes... a small inquiry related to the topic.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : If this testimony left the effect of the fitrah, or in people, we infer from your words that now Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) holds them accountable for this effect, or does He not hold them accountable? I mean, if there is a person who contradicted the fitrah?

The Shaykh : No, He does not hold them accountable except if the clear proof came to them, as He the Exalted said in the previous verse: Meaning, our Lord (Mighty and Majestic), by His wisdom and justice, established the argument against people in the world of the spirits before they entered the stage of obligation. Then when they entered the stage of obligation, whoever was upon the fitrah and a prophet or messenger was sent to him, he is proceeding in accordance with the fitrah. I mean, the one with the fitrah does not contradict his fitrah. I mean, like an angel; do you want to imagine the matter like an angel? He is created for what? For obedience, not for disobedience. But what happened with time, as He (Glorified and Exalted is He) said: ; meaning: they differed after they were what? One nation. So Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good news and warners. So when people deviate from the fitrah, they are then in need of the messengers and prophets. But if they are upon the fitrah, they will live within the bounds of the creed upon the fitrah, their status in that being like the status of the angels. But is the predominant nature of people from the day Allah created Adam until the Hour stands that they remain with time upon their fitrah, or that they deviate? Without doubt, it is the second, which is deviation. The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) pointed to one of the causes of deviation in the previous hadith, that the parents make them Jewish or Christian or Magian. And he pointed to something else, or another cause, in another hadith in Sahih Muslim, which is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him): , , so they took them out of the straight path and commanded them to worship those who do not deserve worship, from among those upon whom Allah has not sent down any authority. So due to the fathers and due to the devils, the majority of people deviated from the fitrah. So it was necessitated by the favor of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) and His justice with people that He not hold them accountable after this deviation except after He renews the argument against them by sending the messengers and revealing the books.

The questioner : So... the taking of the spirits does not establish an argument until...

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly, until the messengers are sent.

The questioner : It is not correct to say in this that these people disbelieved because they contradicted the ahl al-fatra.

The Shaykh : No, absolutely not.