The hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): (Kill the active and passive partners in sodomy).

The questioner : May Allah bless you. I have some hadiths. In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): ... .

The Shaykh : First of all, are you our imam here?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And before you ask me, I want to remind you of something.

The questioner : His saying (peace and blessings be upon him): , Your Excellency... The hadith is hasan in itself, but al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar in "Takhrij al-Habir" mentioned regarding the hadith that it is from the narration of Ibn Abbas and Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with them both); he mentioned in "Takhrij al-Habir" regarding the hadith of Ibn Abbas: Al-Nasa'i denounced it, and Ibn Majah and al-Hakim narrated it from the hadith of Abu Hurayrah, and its chain is much weaker than the first. And Ibn al-Tallaa said in "Ahkamuh": It is not established from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) that he stoned for sodomy, nor that he ruled on it. And it is established from him that he said: , narrated by Ibn Abbas and Abu Hurayrah from him.
And al-Ajlouni in his book "Kashf al-Khafa wa Muzil al-Ilbas" mentioned... regarding the hadith of Ibn Abbas: There is a discussion in the chain of this hadith, and this is from the words of al-Hafiz regarding the hadith of Abu Hurayrah. The hadith of Abu Hurayrah is not authentic. He said: And al-Bazzar extracted it through the route of Asim ibn Umar al-Amri from Suhayl from his father from him, and Asim is one whose narrations are abandoned. And Ibn Majah narrated it through a route with the wording: , and the hadith of Ibn Abbas is disputed regarding its authenticity as mentioned earlier. The hadith was extracted by Abu Dawud, al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, al-Bayhaqi, Ahmad, and al-Nasa'i?

The Shaykh : Okay; what is the summary of this speech?

The questioner : I mean al-Ajlouni's saying: There is a discussion in the chain of this hadith... it undermines it.

The Shaykh : This does not undermine it, but before that, you ask about "Takhrij al-Habir".

The questioner : Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar?

The Shaykh : Regarding "Takhrij al-Habir", what is the summary of his speech in it?

The questioner : That he spoke about the hadith regarding its weakening and said: It is not authentic. And he said: Al-Nasa'i denounced it. The hadith of Ibn Abbas, he said: Al-Nasa'i denounced it.
-- Another questioner : Praise be to Allah.Those present : May Allah have mercy on you.Another questioner : May Allah guide us and rectify your affairs.

The Shaykh : Why am I forgetting, my brother, the denunciation of the hadith from the route... that it might be from the combination of strong routes. But I am confused by a phrase here, which is -- ... --. You mentioned a phrase here that it is established; what is it that is established?

The questioner: The words of the Hafiz?

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : Al-Nasa'i denounced it, and Ibn Majah and al-Hakim narrated it from the hadith of Abu Hurayrah, and its chain is much weaker than the first. And Ibn al-Tallaa said in "Ahkamuh": It is not established from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) that he stoned for sodomy, nor that he ruled on it. And it is established from him that he said: .

The Shaykh : And it is established?

The questioner : And it is established from him that he said: , narrated by Ibn Abbas and Abu Hurayrah from him.

The Shaykh : ... .

The questioner : It is established from him that he said: .

The Shaykh : And the hadith you are speaking about, what is it?

The questioner : It is the same one, but this is the speech of Ibn al-Tallaa... Ibn al-Qayyim.

The Shaykh: All right.

The questioner : Then he said after this speech: In the hadith of Abu Hurayrah: , so he said, and the hadith of Abu Hurayrah is not authentic. And al-Bazzar extracted it through the route of Asim ibn Umar al-Amri.

The Shaykh : What is the hadith that is established?

The questioner : .

The Shaykh : Against whom?

The questioner : It was narrated by Ibn Abbas from him... .

The Shaykh : From whom? From Ibn Abbas?

The questioner : And Abu Hurayrah.

The Shaykh : Okay; ... The hadith of Abu Hurayrah is weak according to al-Hafiz, but the hadith of Ibn Abbas is established; so how do you combine all these words? My brother, these details are in reality what we... we should say that beginners in this knowledge must be cautious in issuing rulings.
This entire speech is merely objective criticism; meaning, regarding a specific hadith in itself. If the hadith of Abu Hurayrah is weaker than the hadith of Ibn Abbas, is that not so? And what is the weight of the hadith of Ibn Abbas if it is looked at alone? It would be hasan, as you quoted from me earlier. Okay; al-Nasa'i said in this hadith that it is munkar. Okay; the fact that he said it is munkar does not mean that we depart from the rule regarding this narrator who narrated this hadith, and that it is a hasan hadith. When do we depart from this rule? Even though you heard from me earlier when I spoke about the hadith of Ibn Ishaq; I was here thinking?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : The hadith of Ibn Ishaq in... when it wasThe questioner : He was asking me by phone. So, were you with us or were you not with us? This is it. So, my speech regarding Ibn Ishaq was that the original status of his hadith is that it is hasan, but if it contradicts someone who is more trustworthy than him, it remains, and its rank drops from hasan to shadhdh or munkar. Now, here, the hadith of Ibn Abbas, I think it is narrated through a man named Amr; is the chain mentioned to you or not?
The important thing is that it is indeed a hadith with a hasan chain. And look now how the invalidation (ilal) sometimes occurs in matters by which the hadith is not invalidated. And he says that it is not established that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said what regarding sodomy? ... Stoning for sodomy. Good; but this speech is not accurate, because we will say: Is it established that anyone committed sodomy in his time (peace be upon him)? In that case, it is said: It is not established that he stoned for sodomy. If it is established that someone committed sodomy and it is not established that he did not stone, then this invalidation is in its place. But the original claim is that it never came at all that anyone committed sodomy. In that case, it is not correct to invalidate this hadith, which is at the level of a hasan hadith, with such an invalidation; because what is not built on a defective foundation is defective, and what is not built on a non-existent thing is non-existent. So we do not have any narration at all that anyone committed sodomy in the time of the Messenger (peace be upon him); so it is not correct to say in the invalidation of this hadith, as long as it is established with a hasan chain: , or it is not established for us.
I mean, the summary of the speech: It is not established for us that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) executed this ruling. Executing this ruling requires the establishment of the condition for its execution, and this does not exist; is this clear? And therefore, the student of knowledge must take from the totality of this contradictory speech. In one narration, it is said that so-and-so's hadith is established, but so-and-so invalidated it because it is not established from the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). We must look at this invalidation: is it valid? And this we can relate to the topic of jarh (criticism) taking precedence over ta'dil (vindication). We have spoken more than once that a condition of this jarh is that it must actually be a jarh. But if, for example, this person is invalidated or criticized because, for example, he was a Murji'i, this is a jarh; but it is not an acceptable jarh. Similarly, here this hadith is invalidated with a cause, but this cause is not acceptable; because it is based on the assumption that someone was found who required the execution of this ruling and it was not executed, and this did not occur. So this invalidation has no place in the grammar, as it is said. Anyone else...?

The questioner : In the takhrij of the hadith... al-Hafiz... .

The Shaykh : How?

The questioner : In the takhrij of the hadith, this hadith is from the book "Al-Sarim al-Masul" which I... .

The Shaykh : Al-Sarim al-Masul?

The questioner : Against the one who insults the Messenger, by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah.

The Shaykh : Who extracted it?

The questioner : No, it is mentioned in the book "Al-Sarim al-Masul", and I am currently in the process of extracting the hadiths in this book. In the takhrij, do we exclude this speech of al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar in... the hadith?

The Shaykh : By Allah, this returns to your personal conviction. As for when you ask me, and since I have ruled that the hadith is sahih for other reasons, this is my opinion. As for you, study my speech, which is available, and the speech of al-Hafiz, which is available, and the speech of al-Ajlouni, which is available. So form an opinion for yourself, then fear Allah (Mighty and Majestic) and... what the soul is reassured by.