On a commercial matter, namely the sale of oil or any other commodity that is in its location at the port and is sold in its place.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : In commercial matters, namely the sale of oil, or others, or any commodity, but the exchange of possession revolves around the device they call...
The Shaykh : What do they call it?
The questioner : ...so it is not the merchandise, but rather the seller is in the position of an intermediary; he buys the merchandise from him, and then the price rises in the market, and he follows up with the parties saying: I sold...
Another questioner : ...you see, he is not the seller... he is an intermediary.
The Shaykh : Who set the price?
The questioner : There are existing global prices.
The Shaykh : I know, but who sets the price? ... I fear there is something behind the veil, it is necessary in... so that we know the details of the case.
The questioner : ...it may be the Jews, it may be a game of this...
Another questioner : No stock exchange, the markets are open.
The Shaykh : Who - may Allah bless you - who set the price?
Another questioner : Supply and demand, supply and demand set the price.
The Shaykh : But this supply and demand may be artificial.
The questioner : It can be said about this, it can be said about the rest of the commodities...
Another questioner : ...the matter of the decrease and increase, the Jews may naturally have the global economy in their hands, they may be behind this thing, but assuming they were behind it; is it not permissible for us to sell or buy?
The Shaykh : By Allah, if they are the ones playing with the prices, the matter is very dangerous, but the truth is that we must know the details of the case, I was asked this question, I think in Jeddah, and I directed this same question, so no one benefited me, it appears that there is something there.
The questioner : But what is built upon this question? I mean, if we spoke...
The Shaykh : What is built upon it - as is not hidden from you - is the removal of the price.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The price, as I understood, the price appears in the auction, not...; is that not so?
The questioner : This is a known matter...
Another questioner : I bought a tanker, containing one million barrels of oil, the price of the barrel is 15 dollars on this day, and the intermediary in... gave me this price, and I told him buy for such and such an amount... through the bank I transferred it, after a week the price rose to 18 dollars.
Another questioner : ... .
Another questioner : He said we bought for you a tanker containing one million barrels, and it is reserved for you at the port, whenever you want to sell... if six months pass and you do not sell, it means you must borrow the oil, he naturally when he borrows personally... got involved... and he follows the prices and placed in his mind to sell before the expiration of the period so that what follows from the matter we mentioned earlier does not fall upon him, so after a week the price rose to 18 dollars, he told them: sell, so he profited 3 million dollars.
The Shaykh : And the barrels are in their place.
The questioner : And the barrels are in their place.
The Shaykh : This is a matter different from the one described to me, the one described to me is that they buy the price of the barrel or the ton or I don't know at a price that was not clarified, but rather it is clarified later, we noticed now the picture has changed, the picture now includes what came in the authentic Sunnah that it is not permissible for a person to sell something he bought except after he moves it, and here a sale was bought and sold in its place, and this happens a lot in gold, meaning, the gold trader buys a quantity of gold from one person, and they agree on a certain price, then a customer comes and buys, so the merchandise revolves among three, four people or more than that, and the merchandise is sitting in its place, naturally this is not hidden from everyone that it is not permissible...; because it is contrary to explicit hadiths.
... ...
The questioner : You have a riyal, he puts it, he did not find it with him, meaning, as a reserve.
The Shaykh : The current problem there is that it is sold while it is in its place.
The questioner : But this... the money is available in advance.
Another questioner : But a question, our professor, is the increase... not possible? I mean, for example, one in Saudi Arabia here, and in the oil - for example - in the port... not possible - for example - that it comes to me here and I possess it, the case is long...
The Shaykh : It is not necessary, professor, that it be moved from a distance of a thousand kilometers or 500 or so on, the important thing is to move it to a secure place on the account of the buyer, then he does what he wishes; because this will be a cause of dispute between the seller and the buyer.
The questioner : It - for example - will be in an oil tanker, and the oil tanker is rented in a lease, so he is not the owner; that the oil in it is not for the driver of this tanker or the ship, ... by Allah, so-and-so bought it today, this is for so-and-so, so-and-so bought it after him, it is for so-and-so.
The Shaykh : I understood, this tanker can move with the barrels of oil on it to another place.
The questioner : Yes, you may.
The Shaykh : Yes, this is it, this is obligatory.
The questioner : Where does it move to?
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I mean, where does it move to, to a place?
The Shaykh : Where.
The questioner : The buyer wants.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : If the buyer told them: leave this tanker in such and such a place?
The Shaykh : No problem, the important thing is that it moves from the place of sale.
The questioner : It is usually moving, it does not have a fixed place.
The Shaykh : No, it will be a formal matter, a matter of reservation.
The questioner : This now entails that all global trade now is on this pattern; when a source - for example - : iron, silver, gold, coffee... all these things are bought and sold in this way.
The Shaykh : Is this praise or blame?
The questioner : No, this is a report of reality.
The Shaykh : A report of reality, but is it in accordance with the Shari'ah or contrary to it? What is our duty now? To develop trade according to our Shari'ah or to develop our Shari'ah according to people's trade; especially since those who own it and dispose of it are the enemies of Allah?
The questioner : There is trade that is capable of development, and trade that is not capable, trade - for example - here inside the country, we can develop it, but global trade, you cannot develop it except in one case; when the Muslims have a strong state and impose your economic system on the world, but in the current time, is it possible - for example - to say to Muslim traders that they should abandon trade in this field, and consequently the Jews and Christians will trade in the lands of the Muslims.
The Shaykh : This - may Allah bless you - does not justify, the end does not justify the means, I mean, now this argument, as you know, is also taken to justify and legitimize dealing with riba; because it is not possible for traders, and as their trade expands, it is not possible for them to deal except through riba-based banks; does that legitimize it, and the Book has not forbidden what Allah - Mighty and Majestic - has forbidden, because we want to expand in trade? No, this does not legitimize such transactions at all.
And therefore I say, on the occasion of your mentioning the Islamic state; I imagine the matter that the Islamic state cannot be established on people who do not apply the rulings that they are able to apply, I mean, as you know, I think a wisdom of some Islamic preachers said in it: "Establish the state of Islam in your hearts, and it will be established for you on your land or in your land," so if we do not start planning to establish the Islamic system and apply the Islamic system within our ability; we will not be able to apply the global Islamic system, and the first of the rain is a drop, then it pours down.
The questioner : ...now; I mean, is it sufficient that the tanker moves meters from its place, its location?
The Shaykh : I said - may Allah bless you - earlier: the matter should not be formal, the matter should be substantive, I mean.
The questioner : And how is it substantive?
The Shaykh : By Allah, this is a matter that the traders know how it is.
The questioner : I mean, in a place, I understand your intentionThe Shaykh : , a place - for example - the tanker is in this place that belongs to the seller, or based on the seller's rental of this place, the buyer rents another place and tells the tanker: move to this place that I rented - for example -; so this is the possession.
The Shaykh: That is, the matter is not as they say; that is, we moved, we moved what? The ship from one place to another, and that is fine, no, rather it is that the buyer reserves this cargo such that the original seller cannot dispose of it if he is not enticed by the price...
The questioner: ... he calculates or estimates by the hour the time the carrier is moored in this port for this beneficiary instead of the original owner; that is, renting it by the hour or wages.
The Shaykh: Therefore, I said I do not know these matters, but the important thing is that the separation is realized... one hundred percent for the buyer; so if what you have mentioned achieves the goal, then that is fine.
The questioner: That is, the security is realized by the purpose, which is that the calculation of the rent accruing to so-and-so transfers from such a time and such a minute to so-and-so.
The Shaykh: And it follows from that that the original seller cannot dispose of this cargo.
...
The questioner: So what requires the transfer in this case? That is, if he transfers it on land; because the calculation of the rent for the ship and the vessel has transferred to the partner, and so has the land itself.
The Shaykh: It is not hidden from any of you that these legal rulings are all from the category of blocking the means to harm; so that disagreement does not enter between the seller and the buyer, so anything that achieves this goal is what permits it to be said that this... belongs to the buyer and the seller has no intervention in it, if the scenario the professor assumed here or the scenario you raised requires a man who works in trade and its arts, plus a scholar of the rulings of the Shari'ah.
The Shaykh : What do they call it?
The questioner : ...so it is not the merchandise, but rather the seller is in the position of an intermediary; he buys the merchandise from him, and then the price rises in the market, and he follows up with the parties saying: I sold...
Another questioner : ...you see, he is not the seller... he is an intermediary.
The Shaykh : Who set the price?
The questioner : There are existing global prices.
The Shaykh : I know, but who sets the price? ... I fear there is something behind the veil, it is necessary in... so that we know the details of the case.
The questioner : ...it may be the Jews, it may be a game of this...
Another questioner : No stock exchange, the markets are open.
The Shaykh : Who - may Allah bless you - who set the price?
Another questioner : Supply and demand, supply and demand set the price.
The Shaykh : But this supply and demand may be artificial.
The questioner : It can be said about this, it can be said about the rest of the commodities...
Another questioner : ...the matter of the decrease and increase, the Jews may naturally have the global economy in their hands, they may be behind this thing, but assuming they were behind it; is it not permissible for us to sell or buy?
The Shaykh : By Allah, if they are the ones playing with the prices, the matter is very dangerous, but the truth is that we must know the details of the case, I was asked this question, I think in Jeddah, and I directed this same question, so no one benefited me, it appears that there is something there.
The questioner : But what is built upon this question? I mean, if we spoke...
The Shaykh : What is built upon it - as is not hidden from you - is the removal of the price.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The price, as I understood, the price appears in the auction, not...; is that not so?
The questioner : This is a known matter...
Another questioner : I bought a tanker, containing one million barrels of oil, the price of the barrel is 15 dollars on this day, and the intermediary in... gave me this price, and I told him buy for such and such an amount... through the bank I transferred it, after a week the price rose to 18 dollars.
Another questioner : ... .
Another questioner : He said we bought for you a tanker containing one million barrels, and it is reserved for you at the port, whenever you want to sell... if six months pass and you do not sell, it means you must borrow the oil, he naturally when he borrows personally... got involved... and he follows the prices and placed in his mind to sell before the expiration of the period so that what follows from the matter we mentioned earlier does not fall upon him, so after a week the price rose to 18 dollars, he told them: sell, so he profited 3 million dollars.
The Shaykh : And the barrels are in their place.
The questioner : And the barrels are in their place.
The Shaykh : This is a matter different from the one described to me, the one described to me is that they buy the price of the barrel or the ton or I don't know at a price that was not clarified, but rather it is clarified later, we noticed now the picture has changed, the picture now includes what came in the authentic Sunnah that it is not permissible for a person to sell something he bought except after he moves it, and here a sale was bought and sold in its place, and this happens a lot in gold, meaning, the gold trader buys a quantity of gold from one person, and they agree on a certain price, then a customer comes and buys, so the merchandise revolves among three, four people or more than that, and the merchandise is sitting in its place, naturally this is not hidden from everyone that it is not permissible...; because it is contrary to explicit hadiths.
... ...
The questioner : You have a riyal, he puts it, he did not find it with him, meaning, as a reserve.
The Shaykh : The current problem there is that it is sold while it is in its place.
The questioner : But this... the money is available in advance.
Another questioner : But a question, our professor, is the increase... not possible? I mean, for example, one in Saudi Arabia here, and in the oil - for example - in the port... not possible - for example - that it comes to me here and I possess it, the case is long...
The Shaykh : It is not necessary, professor, that it be moved from a distance of a thousand kilometers or 500 or so on, the important thing is to move it to a secure place on the account of the buyer, then he does what he wishes; because this will be a cause of dispute between the seller and the buyer.
The questioner : It - for example - will be in an oil tanker, and the oil tanker is rented in a lease, so he is not the owner; that the oil in it is not for the driver of this tanker or the ship, ... by Allah, so-and-so bought it today, this is for so-and-so, so-and-so bought it after him, it is for so-and-so.
The Shaykh : I understood, this tanker can move with the barrels of oil on it to another place.
The questioner : Yes, you may.
The Shaykh : Yes, this is it, this is obligatory.
The questioner : Where does it move to?
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I mean, where does it move to, to a place?
The Shaykh : Where.
The questioner : The buyer wants.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : If the buyer told them: leave this tanker in such and such a place?
The Shaykh : No problem, the important thing is that it moves from the place of sale.
The questioner : It is usually moving, it does not have a fixed place.
The Shaykh : No, it will be a formal matter, a matter of reservation.
The questioner : This now entails that all global trade now is on this pattern; when a source - for example - : iron, silver, gold, coffee... all these things are bought and sold in this way.
The Shaykh : Is this praise or blame?
The questioner : No, this is a report of reality.
The Shaykh : A report of reality, but is it in accordance with the Shari'ah or contrary to it? What is our duty now? To develop trade according to our Shari'ah or to develop our Shari'ah according to people's trade; especially since those who own it and dispose of it are the enemies of Allah?
The questioner : There is trade that is capable of development, and trade that is not capable, trade - for example - here inside the country, we can develop it, but global trade, you cannot develop it except in one case; when the Muslims have a strong state and impose your economic system on the world, but in the current time, is it possible - for example - to say to Muslim traders that they should abandon trade in this field, and consequently the Jews and Christians will trade in the lands of the Muslims.
The Shaykh : This - may Allah bless you - does not justify, the end does not justify the means, I mean, now this argument, as you know, is also taken to justify and legitimize dealing with riba; because it is not possible for traders, and as their trade expands, it is not possible for them to deal except through riba-based banks; does that legitimize it, and the Book has not forbidden what Allah - Mighty and Majestic - has forbidden, because we want to expand in trade? No, this does not legitimize such transactions at all.
And therefore I say, on the occasion of your mentioning the Islamic state; I imagine the matter that the Islamic state cannot be established on people who do not apply the rulings that they are able to apply, I mean, as you know, I think a wisdom of some Islamic preachers said in it: "Establish the state of Islam in your hearts, and it will be established for you on your land or in your land," so if we do not start planning to establish the Islamic system and apply the Islamic system within our ability; we will not be able to apply the global Islamic system, and the first of the rain is a drop, then it pours down.
The questioner : ...now; I mean, is it sufficient that the tanker moves meters from its place, its location?
The Shaykh : I said - may Allah bless you - earlier: the matter should not be formal, the matter should be substantive, I mean.
The questioner : And how is it substantive?
The Shaykh : By Allah, this is a matter that the traders know how it is.
The questioner : I mean, in a place, I understand your intentionThe Shaykh : , a place - for example - the tanker is in this place that belongs to the seller, or based on the seller's rental of this place, the buyer rents another place and tells the tanker: move to this place that I rented - for example -; so this is the possession.
The Shaykh: That is, the matter is not as they say; that is, we moved, we moved what? The ship from one place to another, and that is fine, no, rather it is that the buyer reserves this cargo such that the original seller cannot dispose of it if he is not enticed by the price...
The questioner: ... he calculates or estimates by the hour the time the carrier is moored in this port for this beneficiary instead of the original owner; that is, renting it by the hour or wages.
The Shaykh: Therefore, I said I do not know these matters, but the important thing is that the separation is realized... one hundred percent for the buyer; so if what you have mentioned achieves the goal, then that is fine.
The questioner: That is, the security is realized by the purpose, which is that the calculation of the rent accruing to so-and-so transfers from such a time and such a minute to so-and-so.
The Shaykh: And it follows from that that the original seller cannot dispose of this cargo.
...
The questioner: So what requires the transfer in this case? That is, if he transfers it on land; because the calculation of the rent for the ship and the vessel has transferred to the partner, and so has the land itself.
The Shaykh: It is not hidden from any of you that these legal rulings are all from the category of blocking the means to harm; so that disagreement does not enter between the seller and the buyer, so anything that achieves this goal is what permits it to be said that this... belongs to the buyer and the seller has no intervention in it, if the scenario the professor assumed here or the scenario you raised requires a man who works in trade and its arts, plus a scholar of the rulings of the Shari'ah.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.