Islam, Faith, and Tawhid: The Differences Between Them, and What Causes a Person to Exit the Religion

The questioner: By Allah, Professor, if you would be so kind.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner: That is, as far as I know, it is not permissible for us to testify to faith for any person, no matter who it is; because faith resides in the heart, and only Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has knowledge of it; just as Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas did when he said: "O Messenger of Allah, why did you give him [the spoils] when he is a believer?"

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: So he became angry (peace and blessings be upon him) and said: He repeated it three times.

The Shaykh : .

The questioner: Our outward appearance and the outward appearance of people is Islam, but faith, as you have graciously mentioned, resides in the heart, and only Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has knowledge of the heart. However, I imagine the brothers have some confusion here; because the Muslim is the foundation of the Muslim; meaning, the word "Muslim" determines how we deal with him, and then his case is referred back to Allah (Mighty and Majestic). Perhaps we deal with him on the assumption that he is a Muslim, while he is a disbeliever in the sight of Allah. And it is possible that we consider a certain person a disbeliever, while he is a believer in the sight of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). That is, the picture can be the opposite in the first and second cases.

The Shaykh: Where is the confusion?

The questioner: The confusion is that the brothers focus on how we can know that he is a believer, and that merely the phrase makes him a Muslim, but the extent of his faith and the extent of his Islam is known only to Allah.

The Shaykh: I did not hear this from them.

The questioner: They say he focuses on the fact that he tells you that, like a Muslim says, meaning, I understood from the brother's words that "La ilaha illa Allah" has nullifiers. I understand this.

The Shaykh: Yes, it truly has nullifiers.

The questioner: It has nullifiers, but as long as he does not, meaning, for example, when he comes and tells you: "The Noble Qur'an is a book revealed by Allah, Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is the One God, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is a Messenger." We agree that if he denies one of these, it is a nullifier, a fundamental nullifier, meaning. But actions are not absolutely nullifiers in any way whatsoever.

The Shaykh: Such as actions that contradict the Shari'ah.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: This is what we were discussing, but if it is accompanied in the heart of a person by a contradiction to his creed, he becomes a disbeliever. If it is not accompanied by a contradiction to his creed, he is an open sinner, a Muslim who has what we have and upon him is what is upon us.

The questioner: But here, this point is necessary. That is, the phrase "La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" is said by many people without understanding. That is, if you asked any Muslim now who enters the mosques the meaning of "La ilaha illa Allah," even the meaning of "Allah," he would tell you: "I don't know." So, he says it verbally while being ignorant of it. Therefore, in my opinion, and in my understanding and my very simple knowledge of this topic, moving a person from a state of disbelief to a state of faith does not happen with this simplicity by merely this phrase; and therefore, it is necessary here.

The Shaykh: And moving him from disbelief to Islam?

The questioner : Yes?

The Shaykh: This, as you say, regarding moving him from disbelief to faith, does not happen with this simplicity. But moving him from disbelief to Islam happens with this simplicity.

The questioner: It happens by merely the phrase, of course.

The Shaykh : It would be.

The questioner: It happens by merely the phrase.

The Shaykh: Yes, by merely the phrase.

The questioner: Without understanding the meaning of "La ilaha illa Allah"?

The Shaykh: Without understanding. Then your duty is that you explain it to him. If he tells you: "No, I don't want your faith," this means he is a hypocrite. Slaughter him if you are a Muslim ruler.

Another questioner: The issue we are discussing is the issue of Islam.

The Shaykh: No, the issue of faith.

Another questioner: We want to deal with him.

The Shaykh: No, my brother, respond to your companion in a way that you can understand each other. When he tells you: "No," let him understand from you that when you say: "No," is it "No" or "No"? No, no... there is affirmation.

Another questioner : What is it.

The Shaykh: I am telling you: we are discussing faith. Then the brother raised a topic related to Islam. So Islam is one thing and faith is another. Faith is a matter of the heart, and Islam is an outward matter. So every Muslim whose form and heart are Islam is the one who will be saved. And every Muslim whose Islam contradicts the disbelief in his heart is a hypocrite in the lowest depth of the Fire. So our previous discussion, which we rambled about yesterday and today, was not about Islam. This is an interjected sentence directed to... Our discussion was about what? About faith. So you say: "Our discussion was about Islam."

Another questioner: That is a thing of the past. I say: I want to discuss the issue of Islam regarding the knowledge of the heart or the matter of the heart. This is as you say, that we have nothing in it. Knowledge is with my Lord. But the issue of dealing with these people, we deal with them according to their outward appearance, according to their reality in which they live, according to the outward appearance that...

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: And on this basis, people are declared disbelievers outwardly as it appears to us. We declare people disbelievers on this basis, and not on the basis of what is with Allah; for this is knowledge of the unseen, and we do not intervene in it.

The Shaykh: Understood. But what do you mean by "declared disbelievers outwardly"?

Another questioner: Good.

The Shaykh : What do you mean?

Another questioner: We, because we want, for example, for the religion of Allah to be in the earth and for the Shari'ah of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) to be implemented; we look at these people according to their reality and according to their words and so on. We look at what they are in order to investigate whether they are Muslims, in which case our ruling would be different. We looked at them according to the reality in which they live and found that they are disbelievers and have exited the religion...

The Shaykh: How did you find them to have exited?

Another questioner: Yes, because they say: "La ilaha illa Allah."

The Shaykh: I say to him: How did you find them? He says: Yes!! May Allah guide us and you. May Allah guide us and you.

Another questioner: I tell you that they say: "La ilaha illa Allah" verbally. Is this word permissible or not?

The Shaykh: ... meaning [The Shaykh laughs!].

Another questioner: We are correct, meaning it is not a place for...

The Shaykh: No... You, if I want to speak to you in the language of frankness and the party, you must be polite. Not if someone advises you, you come and say to him: "Yes," and then you start talking in all sorts of ways. But we are being broad with you. So the word now, which you did not carry, you say: "We must not joke." It is not a matter of joking. You must place the words and the words must be measured. Your thinking must precede your words, and your words must follow your thinking, so that you reach your goal and we understand each other. So from one side you say: "What? They apostatized from the religion, they exited the religion. What made you know that they apostatized from the religion?"

Another questioner: I want to give you the evidence...

The Shaykh: I am asking you a question; what made you know that they apostatized from the religion?

Another questioner: I want to give you the evidence...

The Shaykh: My brother, evaluate the evidence for me. I am telling you: What made you know? Then you give me the evidence; what made you know that they exited the religion, that they left the prayer, for example?

Another questioner: No, the reality in which they live, first of all, they resort to the courts of the disbelievers.

The Shaykh : ... .

Another questioner: Yes.

Another questioner: ... resorting to... going to the police station if I and the brother fight...

The Shaykh: No problem, let him speak... This is one thing. Count and see if you have other things?

Another questioner: The issue of resorting to [non-Muslim courts] and the issue of not understanding "La ilaha illa Allah." A person who does not understand "La ilaha illa Allah" in terms of lordship and worship cannot be imagined to be in this religion.

The Shaykh: Now we were speaking about faith, we became speaking about Islam, we became speaking about the religion. Do you distinguish between faith, Islam, and the religion?

Another questioner: In Islam, it is not inside...

The Shaykh: So do not bring words that you were not rambled about, in Islam.

Another questioner: Why do you lose the topic? Really, you lose the topic that means.

The Shaykh: I lose the topic?! I am the one who limits the topic. I lose it? You are the one who is losing it. You do not distinguish between faith, Islam, and the religion!! These people resort to other than Allah, and what else?

Another questioner: And they do not testify that "La ilaha illa Allah" in terms of lordship and worship.

The Shaykh: They do not testify to "La ilaha illa Allah."

Another questioner: They do not understand.

The Shaykh: They do not understand, okay.

Another questioner: They do not understand "La ilaha illa Allah."

The Shaykh: The previous discussion, you did not agree with it? If you did not agree with it, why did you not express your opinion? By what does a person become a Muslim?
Good, he does not answer!! Then he tells me: "I am broadening it, I am narrowing it." By what does a person become a Muslim?

Another questioner: He becomes [a Muslim] by testifying that "La ilaha illa Allah" with understanding its meaning, not merely by saying it.

The Shaykh : With understanding of its meaning, one becomes a believer.

Another questioner : One becomes a believer; correct.

Another questioner : It is not merely a statement; one must know its meaning.

The Shaykh : As for these issues, I ask you, for religion is sincere advice. Some of you do not know them, and some of you must sit and study them with a knowledgeable, understanding scholar who is deliberate and careful, and he must be careful with himself. He should leave the people alone because he has not come out, he is not the filling of the kabsa as they say. You do not yet have understanding of what Islam is or what faith is. You understand words like what you are saying: tawhid al-uluhiyyah, tawhid al-rububiyyah, and I do not know if you mentioned tawhid al-asma' wa al-sifat or not. So the important thing is that you understand something, but as they say: you knew one thing and other things were hidden from you.
So you teach what concerns you and leave the people alone. You are lacking a lot. You are lacking knowledge of what faith is, what Islam is, by what one becomes a Muslim, by what one becomes a believer, and then what is religion? Does a person simply become religious when he reads? No. If he believes, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah," as you want, "Abu al-Haqq," he believes in Allah as Lord, as God, and as the one worshipped, and there is no equal, no likeness, and no similar to Him, and so on. But he did not make it explicit. Is this being religious with the religion of Islam? He is not religious with the religion of Islam. The religion of Islam is not a single part or a single belief; there are many, many things.
The important thing is so that you take, meaning, you breathe, you take your freedom in speech. These people were judged by the taghut. What did they do again? You say: they say: "There is no god but Allah," but they do not understand tawhid al-uluhiyyah and tawhid al-rububiyyah, and so on. These people are concerning you. Are they Muslims or not? We were discussing this hour, and approximately you put... as they say, that these are Muslims. As for whether faith entered their hearts, that is known by their Lord. Are these people Muslims or not, do you have that?

Another questioner : Islam is what appears in the reality of the person. A person who testifies that there is no god but Allah, it appears in his reality, in his deeds, and in his actions, because tawhid is speech and action. It is necessary to combine speech and action, and action. And Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab says regarding the Muslims.

The Shaykh : And if he falls short in the deeds, does he become a non-Muslim?

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : How? Yes?

Another questioner : The deficiency of one of them is like the deficiency of both together; the person exits Islam.

Another questioner : What is the evidence?

The Shaykh : Before you say "the evidence," my brother, let us define the statement for which we want to bring evidence.

Another questioner : Islam tells you: action and this.

The Shaykh : If one falls short in action, does he become a non-Muslim?

Another questioner : No, he does not become a Muslim...

The Shaykh : ... he is saying... he is answering.

Another questioner : If he falls short, meaning if he falls short in the action of tawhid, if he falls short in the belief of tawhid, other than the Shari'ah. If he falls short in any matter of the Shari'ah, we say of him: he is one who falls short.

The Shaykh : That is not what he is saying.

Another questioner : This is what I am saying, but regarding tawhid.

The Shaykh : That is what you are saying...?

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Are you speaking only about tawhid, or about tawhid and action in Islam?

Another questioner : You are cutting off the person, you are not letting us complete.

Another questioner : He is speaking about tawhid...

The Shaykh : ... your friend...

Another questioner : ... I want to complete by saying that, for example.

Another questioner : ... if Allah wills, at the same point that I want.

The Shaykh : ... .

Another questioner : He says: the Shari'ah.

Another questioner : Brother Yusuf said: disbelief by action... disbelief by action, last thing, he did not say: falling short in tawhid or lack of understanding of tawhid, and in the end, that is where he stopped and it was recorded.

Another questioner : I did not complete; I want to say: there are some deeds, like prayer and fasting, for example, or zina or drinking khamr. These deeds do not take the person out of Islam. As for the issue of belief, tawhid, loyalty, and shirk, which are among the implications of "There is no god but Allah," they...

The Shaykh : ... .

Another questioner : Complete, complete, then the other steps.

Another questioner : There is a point I started with, but you branched off from it. We moved from faith to Islam, and we said that, meaning, a person's Islam is public, meaning he comes with deeds that are considered Islam, and deeds that are considered kufr. So we emphasized, we said that the deeds... we say of the Muslim, even if those deeds are kufr.

The Shaykh : No, I did not say... it is permissible to see from him one or two deeds - yes - of Islam, and we see from him deeds that are all fisq, lewdness, and kufr, but we did not know that it was kufr of the heart; so how do we treat him? That is your question, and I answered you...

Another questioner : I answered my question; therefore the brother suggested a second question...

The questioner : Tawhid is spoken with the tongue and with the heart and with action, so action is it.

The Shaykh : What... - my brother - tawhid with the tongue?

The questioner : Tawhid is the faith I mean, faith, but a part of faith I say: action with it.

The Shaykh : Faith is a matter of belief, and you are saying: tongue. What do you mean by tongue?

The questioner : ... and you understand it likewise.

The Shaykh: All right.

The questioner : I tell you: there is no disagreement that tawhid must be with the heart, the tongue, and action...

The Shaykh : This is not absolutely correct.

Another questioner : Let us see...

The Shaykh : Bring it so we can see.

Another questioner : We want to refute it ourselves.

The Shaykh : He is saying with the tongue. Tongue means that he says: Allah exists, is worshipped, "There is no god but Allah"... what is the definition of faith?

Another questioner : The definition of faith is action. The definition of faith, I tell you: it is the definition of faith. But this action, since it is apparent, is considered Islam. It is a part of tawhid, but it is apparent and considered Islam.

The Shaykh : Yes, but does the part have the ruling of the whole? A part flew away; did his Islam fly away? Did his tawhid fly away?

Another questioner : Tawhid is spoken with the tongue and with the heart and with action, so action is it.

The Shaykh : What... - my brother - tawhid with the tongue?

The questioner : Tawhid is the faith I mean, faith, but a part of faith I say: action with it.

The Shaykh : Faith is a matter of belief, and you are saying: tongue. What do you mean by tongue?

The questioner : ... and you understand it likewise.

The Shaykh: All right.

The questioner : I tell you: there is no disagreement that tawhid must be with the heart, the tongue, and action...

The Shaykh : This is not absolutely correct.

Another questioner : Let us see...

The Shaykh : Bring it so we can see.

Another questioner : We want to refute it ourselves.

The Shaykh : He is saying with the tongue. Tongue means that he says: Allah exists, is worshipped, "There is no god but Allah," and so on. Is this not the tongue? Good.
A person lived his whole life as a monotheist, and did not say it, and our Lord knows that what is in his heart, if, excuse me... if he had spoken it as it is in his heart, but he actually did not speak it; is this person not a monotheist? The statement says: No, he is not a monotheist. The statement is tawhid mixed with Islam.

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Yes, mixed with Islam; because the one who lives in the wilderness worships Allah alone in his heart, we can imagine that. But when he is living in a Muslim society, you cannot imagine it except that he testifies, even if against his will, "There is no god but Allah," because he protects his blood, his wealth, and his honor with it. So the testimony with the tongue has no relation to the faith and tawhid settled in his mind and heart, but it has a relation to Islam, , but faith and so on. So faith, my brothers, is one thing and Islam is another. So when... he defines tawhid for you, you must pay attention to whether he is defining tawhid by the name of faith or by the name of faith and Islam. This is...
...

The Shaykh : ... we caught up on the time.
...