What is your ruling on the Sufi orders? Are they apostate?

The questioner : The Sufi orders now, what do you rule regarding them in your view in Syria? ... .

The Shaykh : From which aspect?

The questioner : Regarding Islam.

The Shaykh : I mean, do we rule that they are apostate or not?

The questioner : Yes, indeed.

The Shaykh : We are now, the one who walks in the footsteps of disbelief is "Ahmad Kiftaro," and I have not declared him a disbeliever.

The questioner : And specifically?

The Shaykh : But, wait.

The questioner : We do not declare a specific person a disbeliever; meaning, so-and-so is a disbeliever. As for whether this order, without specifying names, can we make a general statement now that we specify ... .

The Shaykh : No, no, here the specification is applicable; because he is the head of all the misguidance, so if there is an apostate from ... .

The questioner : I mean, do they not have seeking aid and seeking refuge or something like that from the Sufi path?

The Shaykh: No.

The questioner : Okay, my Shaykh, from ... in our previous discussions, that whoever seeks refuge and seeks aid and so on has committed apostasy.

The Shaykh : ... drew the attention of the brother "Awni" ... in that session ... do you remember when I told you: even the one who falls into disbelief ... do you remember this or not?

Another questioner : Yes, there.

The questioner : Okay...

The Shaykh : We have ... .

The questioner : No, the phrase means ... .

The Shaykh : I told "Awni" that this same man ... that we do not declare people disbelievers like this until we know that he has fallen into disbelief, what is it? The creedal one, but I directed the speech to him specifically, so that sometimes a person falls into creedal disbelief and yet you do not rule that he is an apostate from the religion ... .

The questioner : Why?

The Shaykh : Do not be hasty, be careful.
And I remind you here in the first session I told you on the occasion that this speech is similar, and my words hesitated between one who has fallen into disbelief and he does not know or is not aware, do you remember this speech between me and you specifically?

Another questioner : In the first ...?

The Shaykh : The first session ... .

Another questioner : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh : Yes, so I hinted at this exception which I am now in the process of explaining on the occasion of your question about "Kiftaro," before my travel to here, a young man from our brothers in Aleppo came, he said to me: a person I met with and discussed tawassul (seeking nearness to Allah through a means) with him and that it is not permissible, he did not accept and was silent, I said to him: Yes, he did not accept, what do we do for him? ; he said: he is the imam of a mosque, do I pray behind him or not ...? I said to him: what do you believe about him? That you met with him, and discussed the matter and he did not accept; meaning he has become a disbeliever in your view ... and has committed apostasy from his religion? He said: No. I said to him: Then praying behind a Muslim is permissible no matter what his status is, as long as you have not ruled upon him with what? With disbelief, then I drew the attention of all our brothers there so that ... that what occurred between the Salafis - we are called Salafis there - and the others is from the door of: , so we believe that it is not just that a person has fallen into disbelief; it is necessary that the proof be established against him that he is a disbeliever, after that he is ruled as a disbeliever and his matter is left to Allah, I am still ruling that he is a Muslim, his matter is left to Allah because he may be excused, due to one of the reasons, one of which I address with our brothers; I say that an ordinary one of our brothers, you, so-and-so, means you believed in yourself now you are the sign of the world in the Book and the Sunnah and understanding them, then good expression and proof to the opponents with your creed or are you still yourself a beginner in this field? Of course he admits the reality, how now do you come and assume yourself as if you are the Messenger of Allah?! Just because you convey the call to this ignorant person who lived between twenty to thirty years and he hears disbelief and seeking aid, and this tawassul (seeking nearness to Allah through a means) there is no obstacle and so on; how do you imagine just because you and your weakness in knowledge ... that you have established the proof against him?! Do not be hasty, people, these Sufis, we do not differ that there are callers to the Book and the Sunnah from all aspects, and that these ... Allah has ruled in what they contradict, so the proof was established against them and we are done with them; no, so then let us proceed with what we have of strength and what? A small number, each according to what he can.

The questioner : Here is a question ... some Sufis say: I received revelation, or he says: I know the unseen?

The Shaykh : This question - my brother - is a foregone conclusion ... this is disbelief, but establish the proof against him and wash your hands of him, what is behind this question? ... we were discussing it, "only you have multiplied and death is one."

The questioner : How do you establish the proof against him ...?

The Shaykh : You establish the proof against him and there is no revelation after the Messenger - peace be upon him -, there is no prophethood, there is no ... there is no such thing, and so on.
Yes.

The questioner : If it were ... the Shi'ah would ... is it from your method to cite this verse regarding the misguided sects? ... .

The Shaykh: Of course.

The questioner : Okay, this misguidance is from the people of desires and the innovators of a specific type ...?

The Shaykh : Everyone who has strayed from the truth is included in this verse.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Let me complete for you, and their straying, some of them are certainly upon clear evidence of their straying, and some of them are a mujtahid (a scholar qualified to derive rulings) who made a wrong ijtihad (independent legal reasoning), so whoever is from the "first" group, we disavow him with one statement ... and if he is from the second group, that he wants the truth if it becomes clear to him, but it did not become clear to him; this ... .