Explaining the weakness of the hadith narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah, which Ibn al-Qayyim cited as evidence for his position

The Shaykh : Before studying this matter, we will understand the answer to what he claimed regarding the narration from Abu Hurayrah that matches the hadith of Ibn Abi Shaybah. Here, one remains amazed. Ibn al-Qayyim says that he was hesitating in his mind, thinking that perhaps the hadith was reversed, and he did not dare to be certain of this claim until he found that Ibn Abi Shaybah had narrated the hadith with the wording that was on his mind: . He presents its chain, saying Ibn Abi Shaybah: "He said: Muhammad ibn Fudayl narrated to me, from Abdullah ibn Sa'id, from his grandfather, from Abu Hurayrah."
We need to see who this Abdullah ibn Sa'id is. This Abdullah ibn Sa'id has been accused of lying. Now, in the previous manner of abbreviation, we can see what Ibn Hajar said? This Abdullah ibn Sa'id is Abdullah ibn Sa'id ibn Abi Sa'id al-Maqburi, and he is from Madinah. Abdullah ibn Sa'id ibn Abi Sa'id al-Maqburi, Abu 'Abbad al-Laythi, the client of Madinah, is abandoned (matruk). This is what Ibn Hajar says about him: "Abandoned (matruk)." Let us see, for example, what al-Dhahabi says? He is approximately a contemporary of Ibn al-Qayyim and his peer. Abdullah ibn Sa'id is not here? Yes, Abdullah ibn Sa'id ibn Abi Sa'id al-Maqburi, from his father, they abandoned him. Likewise, al-Dhahabi says this.
So, this hadith to which Ibn al-Qayyim appealed and relied upon to confirm his previous suspicion that perhaps the hadith was reversed; it is better to say that this is the reversed one; because the one who narrated it is abandoned (matruk); meaning extremely weak; if he narrated a hadith with no defect, his hadith would not be used as evidence and would be cast aside because he is accused, and it is perhaps also advisable that you verify the seriousness of this man's status so that it is not valid to rely on him in a claim of reversal.
Details of some of the words the Imams said about this man: Abu Qudamah said: "From Yahya ibn Sa'id, I sat with him in a session and I knew in him; meaning lying, I sat with him in a session; meaning I attended his session for listening to hadith, and lying became apparent to me from his hadiths." Abu Talib said about Ahmad - Imam Ahmad - he said: "His hadith is denounced (munkar), his hadith is abandoned (matruk)," and likewise said Amr ibn Ali. From Ibn Ma'in: "Weak," a second narration: "He is nothing," he also says: "His hadith is not written." And Abu Zur'ah said: "Weak in hadith, nothing is established from him." And al-Bukhari said: "They abandoned him." And al-Nasa'i said: "He is not trustworthy, Yahya and Abd al-Rahman abandoned him." And al-Hakim Abu Ahmad said: "His hadith is gone." And Ibn 'Adi said: "And most of what he narrates, the weakness is evident upon him." Al-Barqi, Ya'qub ibn Sufyan, and Dawud al-Sajji weakened him. And al-Daraqutni said: "Abandoned (matruk), his hadith is gone." And Ibn Hibban said: "He used to reverse the reports" - look, this is a core argument - Ibn Hibban says: "He used to reverse the reports until it becomes certain in the heart that he did it intentionally." So how is it permissible to claim the reversal of a hadith by trustworthy narrators because of the narration of this abandoned man who is accused of lying?
He said: "And it has been narrated from Abu Hurayrah what confirms that and matches the hadith of Wa'il ibn Hujr. Ibn Abi Dawud said: Yusuf ibn 'Adi narrated to us, al-Fadl narrated to us - there may be an error here - Muhammad ibn Fudayl, from Abdullah ibn Sa'id - the same man who has become your companion again - from Abdullah ibn Sa'id, from his grandfather, from Abu Hurayrah, that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to, when prostrating, begin with his knees before his hands."
What do you think? He is arguing with the same weak man who narrated the first hadith reversed, contrary to the narration of the trustworthy one, and he also narrated it reversed from another aspect, the hadith from his saying (peace be upon him), so he reversed it and made it from his action.
Then he said: "And Ibn Khuzaymah narrated in his 'Sahih' from the hadith of Mus'ab ibn Sa'd, from his father, who said: 'We used to place our hands before our knees, and we were commanded to place our knees before our hands.' And on this, if the hadith of Abu Hurayrah is preserved" - meaning the verbal hadith: - he said: "If the hadith of Abu Hurayrah is preserved; then it is abrogated, and this is the method of the author of 'al-Mughni' and others, but the hadith has two defects; one of them is 'what hadith? The hadith of Ibn Khuzaymah that he relied upon in claiming the abrogation of the authentic hadith of Abu Hurayrah, he is correcting its status, saying: it has two defects; meaning the hadith in its wording: We used to place our hands before our knees, then we were commanded to place our knees before our hands, he says: 'It has two defects, one of them is that it is from the narration of Yahya ibn Salama ibn Kuhayl, and he is not one whose hadith is used as evidence, and al-Nasa'i said: Abandoned (matruk), and Ibn Hibban said: His hadith is extremely denounced (munkar), not to be used as evidence, and Ibn Ma'in said: He is nothing.'"
So, this hadith, if we want to summarize these words, we arrive at the result that this hadith is extremely weak, the hadith that they used to place their hands before their knees and then were commanded to do the opposite; this hadith is extremely weak by the testimony of the statements of the Imams that the same author transmitted, this is the first defect.
The second defect - and it is much more important - is that the preserved narration from Mus'ab ibn Sa'd, the Tabi'i, from his father is only the story of the application (tathbīt), and Sa'd's saying: "We used to place this, so we were commanded to place our hands on the knees," this is the preserved authentic hadith, and it is narrated in "Sahih Muslim." Ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him) used to hold that the one bowing, when he bows, does not place his hands on his knees, but rather he applies (tathbīt) between his palms like this, then inserts them between his thighs, this is the application (tathbīt), and he was strict in adhering to this application.
With Mus'ab, who is the son of Sa'd, he was praying one day next to Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, so when Ibn Mas'ud bowed, he applied (tathbīt), and his companion Mus'ab next to him took hold of the knees, so Ibn Mas'ud did nothing but untie his hands from his knees and apply them for him and push them, in the Shami expression, between his thighs.
The man knew the status of Ibn Mas'ud, so it became his strong suspicion that this is the Sunnah with which the Messenger (peace be upon him) left his Companions, so he responded to him, this was in Kufa, in the town where Ibn Mas'ud was, then he returned to Madinah where his father Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas, one of the ten promised Paradise, was, so he recounted to him what Ibn Mas'ud did to him, and Sa'd (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "My brother Ibn Mas'ud spoke the truth; for we used to do that, then we were commanded to take hold of the knees."
Ibn al-Qayyim says - and this is of his fairness, of course - he says: The preserved hadith from Mus'ab ibn Sa'd, the Tabi'i, from his father, the Companion, has no relation to the issue of the abrogation of placing the hands in prostration with placing the knees, but rather this hadith has a relation to the application (tathbīt), so that abandoned narrator who is extremely weak either intentionally reversed this hadith as well, or due to his severe poor memory, the matter became mixed up for him, so instead of narrating the story of the application (tathbīt), he narrated something that does not exist; which is that they used to place their hands in prostration, then they were commanded to place the knees before the hands.
So Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) in this ... verified the statement in it and clarified that it is not permissible to rely on it due to the extreme weakness of its narrator first, and because the preserved authentic hadith is only in the story of the application (tathbīt) and not in the story of descending to prostration.
He said: "As for the statement of the author of 'al-Mughni': From Abu Sa'id, he said: 'We used to place our hands before our knees, so we were commanded to place our knees before our hands'; this - and Allah knows best - is an error in the name, and it is actually from Sa'd, and it is also an error in the text as mentioned before, and it is only in the story of the application (tathbīt)."
I think we should stop for now, as more than an hour has passed. May Allah will that we complete the discussion in the next session, and it will likely not take much time so that we can devote ourselves to answering the remaining questions or some of them, if Allah wills. Therefore, we conclude this session with this much, and all praise is due to Allah, Lord of the worlds.