How is the descent into prostration performed in prayer? And the weakness of the hadith of Wail ibn Hujr and the athar of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas?

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : Peace be upon you, and Allah’s mercy and blessings.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

The questioner : The hadith, my master?

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : I explained it yesterday...
Abu Layla : If you please, come closer a bit.

The questioner : My voice is audible, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : For the recording.

Another questioner : Recording the question.

The Shaykh : Please, Professor.

The questioner : After the praise and the prayer upon the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh: (peace and blessings be upon him).

The questioner : I explained yesterday, my master, the ruling on prostrating on the hands before the knees.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : To distinguish us from the animals.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : And I mentioned some phrases from that.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : And I did not consider the evidence at that time, but I said that the ruling was abrogated, so after returning to the references.

The Shaykh : You will not find anything.

The questioner : O my master.

The Shaykh : I am listening to you.

The questioner : We found the following; we will read the issue, if Allah wills, and we want, if Allah wills, your guidance?

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good. If you would sit until the person behind you sits, what do you think?

The questioner : I am standing so that you can hear, that is all.

The Shaykh : I am all ears for you.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : May Allah preserve you.

The questioner : So the issue says.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : Relying on the hands in prostration.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : And the evidence is present, if Allah wills.
In the hadith of Wail ibn Hujr, it is reported with the damma that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to place his hand between his knees when he bowed.

The Shaykh : How between his hands? He used to place what?

The questioner : His hand.

The Shaykh : Between his knees?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : How between his knees?

The questioner : This is how the hadith was reported.

The Shaykh : It is not reasonable; between my hands, his knees, what does that mean?

The questioner : I mean, I am reading the issue.

The Shaykh : Ah, okay, so this is an interjected phrase. Yes.

The questioner : And this hadith is reported in Sunan Abu Dawud, and Imam Ahmad in his Musnad, and al-Nasa'i in his Sunan, and al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, and al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, and al-Daraqutni in his Sunan; they also reported this hadith.

The Shaykh : What is the connection between the topic and the hadith? May Allah bless you.

The questioner : I will complete it for you, if Allah wills, my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Yes, what is it to us and what is it not to us? May Allah bless you. We do not want to stay up until midnight.

The questioner : No, no, it is the issue.

The Shaykh : Allow me, allow me, let me understand. Since this hadith has no connection to yesterday's topic, then you bring the hadith that has a connection.

The questioner : No, it is connected. I will complete it for you, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : My brother, give us the completion. May Allah bless you.

The questioner : Let me complete it for you, just two lines, if Allah wills.
And from him it was said: I saw the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) when he prostrated, he would place his knees before his hands, and when he rose, he would raise his hands before his knees.
This is also reported in Sunan al-Tirmidhi, al-Nasa'i, and al-Darimi. Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: We used to do that, then we were commanded to place the knees, meaning we used to place the hands before the knees, so we were forbidden from that and commanded to place the knees before the hands, in opposition to the animals. So based on that, the first hadith of Wail abrogates the second hadith, and it is supported by the second hadith of Sa'd. This is also reported in al-Risalah on page twenty-nine by Imam al-Shafi'i. So what is your opinion?

The Shaykh : My opinion, may Allah bless you, if you had been present with us yesterday, you would have heard the response to your first hadith. Were you not there?The questioner : Yesterday?

The questioner : No, no, it was not me. I heard...

The Shaykh : Were you not there?

The questioner: No, no.

The Shaykh : No, no, it was not you. Your neighbor, this neighbor of yours?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : He wasThe questioner : .

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : So I answered regarding your first hadith. This hadith of Wail ibn Hujr is weak, and you, may Allah bless you, take this as advice from me.

The questioner: Go ahead.

The Shaykh : And you may be a role model for people.

The questioner : If Allah wills.

The Shaykh : It is not permissible for a Muslim to transmit a hadith to people unless he verifies its authenticity, otherwise the warning of his saying (peace be upon him) will befall him: And so I am an honest advisor to you. Beware, then beware, then beware of narrating a hadith and saying "The Messenger of Allah said," "The Messenger of Allah commanded," "The Messenger of Allah did," when you are not aware of the authenticity of this hadith. Perhaps in the recent past when you honored us with your presence.

The questioner : And beware of that.

The Shaykh : You knew that the science of hadith has men.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And that knowing whether a hadith is authentic or not has a specific science, etc. Therefore, it is not befitting for someone like you, merely because he saw a hadith in a book, to say "The Messenger of Allah said," "The Messenger of Allah commanded." No, not until he verifies it, because you know first the noble verse: And in a reading: Beautiful. And this is not, as many people think, that this verse is specific to the hypocrites or the open sinners. No, this is the principle of verification and confirmation in everything a person wants to hear and then wants to transmit. Verification is necessary. The evidence for that is what Imam Muslim narrated in the introduction of his Sahih from al-Mughirah ibn Shu'bah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) said: And in a wording: This is advice as an introduction to the answer regarding the hadiths you mentioned.
As for the answer regarding the hadith of Wail, I mentioned it yesterday. And perhaps our brother who is present with us now, and praise be to Allah, remembers that I said, and I do not know if the tape is available, it would be clearer to listen to the tape, that the answer was presented previously.
The hadith of Wail ibn Hujr contains a man named Shurayk ibn Abdullah al-Qadi. I mentioned that he was an excellent judge, etc., but he was weak in memory. Therefore, al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar said, and I said this recently, when he mentioned it in his book al-Taqrib, Taqrib al-Tahdhib, he said: "He is not strong." So the hadith of Wail ibn Hujr that you mentioned just now, its chain is weak. This is first. As for the hadith of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas, and this I did not mention and did not address it recently, this also is not authentic in its chain. Rather, the authentic hadith of Sa'd is what some narrators of authentic hadiths, like Ibn Khuzaymah and others, narrated: that they were commanded to place their palms between their thighs, between their knees, so they were commanded to place them on the knees. And so I was surprised that the first hadith, I think the scribe mixed up one hadith with another. They were from before, and this is what is established from Ibn Mas'ud, and this is called al-Tatbiq, meaning the Messenger (peace be upon him) in the beginning when he prayed, instead of bowing like this, he would apply like this and place [his hands] between his knees while bowing. So they were commanded to place the palms on the knees. This is the authentic hadith of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas (may Allah be pleased with him). As for them being commanded to place the hands during prostration, this is a weak hadith that is not relied upon at all. This is the answer regarding the hadith of Wail from one side, and Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas from the other. Then I ask you not to forget what you hear of knowledge. I mentioned to you two authentic hadiths. The first hadith, he (peace and blessings be upon him) said: The second hadith, perhaps you remember the hadith of Nafi' from his master Ibn Umar that he used to place his palms before his knees when he prostrated, and Ibn Umar said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) used to do that. And I mentioned recently that the action of Ibn Umar, that he used to place his palms before his knees when he prostrated, is in Sahih al-Bukhari, but in Sahih al-Bukhari it is by a path known to hadith scholars as mu'allaq, and this has another discussion. Then do not forget that I mentioned to you a hadith before these two hadiths, which is the hadith of Abd al-Rahman ibn Shabyl who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) forbade three things: prostrating like the prostration of a camel, turning like the turning of a fox, and pecking like the pecking of a crow. And we explained to you the language that the knees of the camel are where? In its front legs. And likewise the four-legged animals. And we mentioned to you the story of the mutaba'ah of Suraqah ibn Malik ibn Ju'jum pursuing the Messenger (peace be upon him) on the day he left as an emigrant from Makkah to al-Madinah on his horse, so the horse's hooves sank to its knees, like this in Sahih al-Bukhari. So the language and the authentic narration confirm that the knees of the camel are in its front legs. So the one who prays prostrating on his knees has imitated the camel, and he is a human whom Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has honored, so it is not befitting for him to imitate, and in the Bedouin expression, the camels.

The questioner : It is, my master, in the Bedouin expression after the question, meaning the people of the desert said that the camel prostrates on its hands, meaning the first thing it does when it kneels...

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you, may Allah forgive you, Professor Abu Usamah?

The questioner : Abu Usamah.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. Please, allow me, allow me. This is all an answer. May Allah forgive you once again. This answer was given previously. We told you, my brother, that the one who says that when the camel kneels down it places its hands, it is as if he is a European who has never seen a camel. We are people of camels, people of livestock, people of camels. We do not see them walking on four legs. The foal, when it falls from its mother’s belly, falls on four legs and walks on four legs. So how can one of you say that when the camel kneels, it kneels on its hands? My brother, its hands are placed on the ground from the moment it is born, like its legs, like its hindquarters. But I always say, and I will always say on this occasion, when there is a discussion, I am asking a question now, and I hope the answer will be precise, and my question is very specific. I hope the answer is also specific. We see the camel walking on four legs. What is the first thing the camel places on the ground from its body? What is the first thing?

The questioner : Its hands.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. Why do you say its hands? Its hands are placed. If you ride it.

The questioner : My master, I agree with you, and we want to verify.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The questioner : O my master,

The Shaykh : But do not transfer, please do not transfer. The phrase is clear. The invalidity is like the sun at midday. We asked, and the Bedouins said the camel first places its hands. My brother, we see its hands. We are like the horse, like the mule, like the donkey, walking on four legs. So when it kneels, it kneels on its front knees. I asked this question of a Bedouin who was imprisoned with me in al-Hasakah, there in northern Syria.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : In the time of Abd al-Nasir. I asked him. He was a Bedouin and used to pray with us, praise be to Allah. But the strange thing was that he would kneel like a camel kneels. I asked him, I ask you a question before I look into this religious matter. When the camel kneels, what does it place first from its body? He said: The knees. This is the correct answer, the knees. And so we said recently, do not imitate, O worshipper, O believer, do not imitate the camel, especially since the camel is cited as an example of distraction and of the hatred that leads it to kill its companion in known stories about it. So do not imitate the camel. And the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), who showed us everything, said in clear Arabic: This aligns with the hadith of 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Shabban, who prohibited kneeling like the kneeling of the camel, do not prostrate . We told you, it is as if there is a questioner saying: How do we prostrate, O Messenger of Allah? The answer comes, as it is said today, automatically, without a question being directed to him (peace be upon him) And Allah is sufficient for the believers in fighting. So in summary, we have two hadiths prohibiting the kneeling of the camel. One of them clarifies explicitly and says: If you have anything else, Professor.

The questioner : I, I mean.

The Shaykh : We benefit from you.

The questioner : I mean regarding the explanation of our master Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas.

The Shaykh : This is a weak hadith.

The questioner : It clarifies the issue.

The Shaykh : This is a weak hadith.

The questioner : That we used to place the hands.

The Shaykh : Between the knees.

The questioner : ... yesterday that he falls and drops.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : The falling ... .

The Shaykh : Well done. This is also evidence, evidence from the Qur'an The falling is with force, it is not like this, like this. No, with a thud, no, we placed the knees.

The questioner : Okay, what is your opinion, my master, about the book? Do we read it or not, or do we not read it, or ... in the books and look for an alternative.

The Shaykh : By Allah, to judge it, to judge it, one must read it to see if, first of all, he is from the people of jurisprudence or is he just a transmitter from here and there. And the second thing, which is perhaps more important, is whether he is from the people of knowledge of the authentic and weak in hadith or not, or is he a night gatherer. I cannot judge, neither this way nor that way. If you want to keep it with me, as a loan, as a loan.

The questioner : It is a loan, correct, because ... .

The Shaykh : No, I, I mean.

The questioner : The book is a loan ... .

The Shaykh : Okay, please, then I will return it to its owner.

The questioner : We hope, if Allah wills, that he is not a night gatherer and not one with an ulterior motive.

The Shaykh : That is what we hope, that is what we hope.