Were the parents of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) among the people of the period of ignorance, and likewise the polytheists before him?
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The questioner : ... A hadith in Muslim: Sahih Muslim 203, without a doubt ... .
The Shaykh : What you say: "There is no doubt in it"; in it is all doubt. Your statement that the father of the Messenger is among the people of the period of ignorance ... this is not correct. Where do we get that he is among the people of the period of ignorance?
The questioner : Because there is no prophet with him ... .
The Shaykh : Like our story, do we have a prophet in our time?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Was it?
The questioner : ... A message.
The Shaykh : Did they have a message with them? This is a common error that the polytheists who were before the Messenger (peace be upon him) are the people of the period of ignorance. It is wrong. These people were reached by the call of Isma'il. Otherwise, where did they get the circumambulation of the House from? They were circumambulating in the time of the Messenger, before the prophethood and after the prophethood.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
Another questioner : How does it mean conveying? ... .
The Shaykh : Would it have been? Either the person or the person's call; and therefore I told you, and I am reminding you of what I am saying, like our story. We did not have a prophet, but did we not have his call?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : That is enough, the argument has been established against us. Yes, the people of Europe say: "The call did not reach them." Yes, if the call did not reach them, they are the people of the period of ignorance. But we cannot say today: "It reached them or it did not reach them." Ask the one who is debating them, he will know. Without a doubt, some of the Orientalists from these disbelievers, certainly, the call reached them. Perhaps in some countries and some villages - also - the call reached them. Yes, but we do not generalize that the call reached them or did not reach them; because this is a matter, as we said ... what is the benefit? We know the legal ruling: whoever the call reached, the argument has been established against him. Whoever the call did not reach, he is among the people of the period of ignorance.
The Shaykh: As for those who were before the mission of the Messenger (peace be upon him), and among them his two parents, it was supposed that we should say what we say about the people of Europe: we do not say: "The call reached them" or "the call did not reach them." But we found hadiths that inform us that those who died before the mission of the Messenger (peace be upon him) are among the people of the Fire. So we inferred from that that they are not the people of the period of ignorance; because if they were the people of the period of ignorance, they would not be among the people of the Fire. From that, for example, the Messenger (peace be upon him) passed by one day while he was on his mule, and it shied; it started, and he saw two graves. So he asked about them; and they said to him: "They died in the pre-Islamic age of ignorance." Despite that, they are being punished. The mule shied because it heard the punishment of these buried people. And on this occasion, he (may Allah's prayers and blessings be upon him) said:, and in a narration: .
The Shaykh: And what indicates that is what relates to the same question; for he (may Allah's prayers and blessings be upon him) said:; that is because Allah says: [At-Tawbah 9:114], so seeking forgiveness for polytheists is not permissible except if we do not think that they are polytheists. So the Messenger asked his Lord's permission to seek forgiveness for his mother by asking his Lord: ; so this is evidence that she is not among the people of forgiveness.
The Shaykh: But what relates to his father is like the hadith you asked about; so it is evidence that the call reached him ... he is among the people of the Fire, and it is ruled by one who does not speak from desire,[An-Najm 53:4], evidence that the call reached him, so he did not respond to it.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : How? How?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Conveyed what? Convey to them what?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh :[Al-Isra 17:15] Not a disbeliever who declares them disbelievers and conveys disbelief to them.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Did he convey to them the call of truth?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : They don't know, they are ignorant. What does[Al-Isra 17:15] mean? How are you understanding the verse? What does: [Al-Isra 17:15] mean? What does: [Al-Isra 17:15] mean?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : You are not answering!! Why are you not answering? But you want to destroy me with your questions, and I have one question to ask you out of dozens, and you do not answer it!! What does:[Al-Isra 17:15] mean? If you know what the meaning is, tell him. If you do not know what the meaning is, ask about it.
The questioner : Okay, the existence of religions now.
The Shaykh : This discussion is not for you, my brother.
The questioner : I want you to listen to me ... the existence of religion ... .
The Shaykh : Its existence?
The questioner: Yes ... .
The Shaykh : What do you think? I will tell you, its existence in some cases is not an argument. What do you think if a great scholar ... he reads from the Qur'an and the Sunnah ... this scholar? Did the call reach them? Did the call reach these disbelievers?
The questioner : ... .
...
The Shaykh : ... in his call, so if neither a messenger nor a messenger's call comes, then I ... by His justice and wisdom and the majesty of His greatness, He does not punish a servant to whom My call did not reach. This is the complete meaning of the noble verse. You are ... with your mind. Why would it be? ... He does not know that this is disbelief. If he saw that I sent messengers and sent down books, if the matter were as I imagine ... there is no need for a person ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I am telling you; if the matter were as you think, there would be no need to send messengers and send down books; for what? Since reason is sufficient, and every person is either sane or insane. Is the insane person obligated to do anything?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I am asking you a question; is the insane person obligated to do anything?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Why?
The questioner : Because ... .
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay, does reason understand by itself what is lawful and what is forbidden without Allah saying: "This is forbidden, this is lawful"?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: You did not answer me.
The questioner : If we say reason ... .
The Shaykh: You did not answer me.
Verily my father and your father are in the Fire.
إن أبي وأباك في النارThe Shaykh : What you say: "There is no doubt in it"; in it is all doubt. Your statement that the father of the Messenger is among the people of the period of ignorance ... this is not correct. Where do we get that he is among the people of the period of ignorance?
The questioner : Because there is no prophet with him ... .
The Shaykh : Like our story, do we have a prophet in our time?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Was it?
The questioner : ... A message.
The Shaykh : Did they have a message with them? This is a common error that the polytheists who were before the Messenger (peace be upon him) are the people of the period of ignorance. It is wrong. These people were reached by the call of Isma'il. Otherwise, where did they get the circumambulation of the House from? They were circumambulating in the time of the Messenger, before the prophethood and after the prophethood.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
Another questioner : How does it mean conveying? ... .
The Shaykh : Would it have been? Either the person or the person's call; and therefore I told you, and I am reminding you of what I am saying, like our story. We did not have a prophet, but did we not have his call?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : That is enough, the argument has been established against us. Yes, the people of Europe say: "The call did not reach them." Yes, if the call did not reach them, they are the people of the period of ignorance. But we cannot say today: "It reached them or it did not reach them." Ask the one who is debating them, he will know. Without a doubt, some of the Orientalists from these disbelievers, certainly, the call reached them. Perhaps in some countries and some villages - also - the call reached them. Yes, but we do not generalize that the call reached them or did not reach them; because this is a matter, as we said ... what is the benefit? We know the legal ruling: whoever the call reached, the argument has been established against him. Whoever the call did not reach, he is among the people of the period of ignorance.
The Shaykh: As for those who were before the mission of the Messenger (peace be upon him), and among them his two parents, it was supposed that we should say what we say about the people of Europe: we do not say: "The call reached them" or "the call did not reach them." But we found hadiths that inform us that those who died before the mission of the Messenger (peace be upon him) are among the people of the Fire. So we inferred from that that they are not the people of the period of ignorance; because if they were the people of the period of ignorance, they would not be among the people of the Fire. From that, for example, the Messenger (peace be upon him) passed by one day while he was on his mule, and it shied; it started, and he saw two graves. So he asked about them; and they said to him: "They died in the pre-Islamic age of ignorance." Despite that, they are being punished. The mule shied because it heard the punishment of these buried people. And on this occasion, he (may Allah's prayers and blessings be upon him) said:
If it were not that you bury one another
لولا أن تدافنواIf it were not that you bury your dead, I would have heard you what I heard of the punishment of the grave.
لولا أن لا تدافنوا لَأسمَعْتُكم ما سمعتُ من عذاب القبرThe Shaykh: And what indicates that is what relates to the same question; for he (may Allah's prayers and blessings be upon him) said:
I asked my Lord for permission to visit my mother's grave, and He permitted me. Then I asked Him for permission to seek forgiveness for her, but He did not permit me.
إني استأذنْتُ ربي في أن أزورَ قبر أمي فأَذِنَ لي ، فاستأذنْتُه في أن أستغفر لها فلم يأذَنْ ليAnd the request of forgiveness of Abraham for his father was only because of a promise he had made to him. But when it became apparent to Abraham that his father was an enemy to Allah, he disassociated himself from him
وَمَا كَانَ اسْتِغْفَارُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ إِلَّا عَنْ مَوْعِدَةٍ وَعَدَهَا إِيَّاهُ فَلَمَّا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ أَنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ لِلَّهِ تَبَرَّأَ مِنْهُTo seek forgiveness, to visit my mother's grave, and He permitted me. And I asked Him for permission to seek forgiveness for her, but He did not permit me.
أن أستغفر في أن أزورَ قبر أمي فأَذِنَ لي ، وإني استأذنْتُه في أن أستغفر لها فلم يأذَنْ ليThe Shaykh: But what relates to his father is like the hadith you asked about; so it is evidence that the call reached him ... he is among the people of the Fire, and it is ruled by one who does not speak from desire,
It is not but a revelation revealed,
إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىThe questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : How? How?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Conveyed what? Convey to them what?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh :
And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.
وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًاThe questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Did he convey to them the call of truth?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : They don't know, they are ignorant. What does
never would We punish
مَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَAnd never would We punish until We sent a messenger.
وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًاAnd never would We punish until We sent a messenger.
وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًاThe questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : You are not answering!! Why are you not answering? But you want to destroy me with your questions, and I have one question to ask you out of dozens, and you do not answer it!! What does:
And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.
وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولًاThe questioner : Okay, the existence of religions now.
The Shaykh : This discussion is not for you, my brother.
The questioner : I want you to listen to me ... the existence of religion ... .
The Shaykh : Its existence?
The questioner: Yes ... .
The Shaykh : What do you think? I will tell you, its existence in some cases is not an argument. What do you think if a great scholar ... he reads from the Qur'an and the Sunnah ... this scholar? Did the call reach them? Did the call reach these disbelievers?
The questioner : ... .
...
The Shaykh : ... in his call, so if neither a messenger nor a messenger's call comes, then I ... by His justice and wisdom and the majesty of His greatness, He does not punish a servant to whom My call did not reach. This is the complete meaning of the noble verse. You are ... with your mind. Why would it be? ... He does not know that this is disbelief. If he saw that I sent messengers and sent down books, if the matter were as I imagine ... there is no need for a person ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I am telling you; if the matter were as you think, there would be no need to send messengers and send down books; for what? Since reason is sufficient, and every person is either sane or insane. Is the insane person obligated to do anything?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : I am asking you a question; is the insane person obligated to do anything?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Why?
The questioner : Because ... .
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay, does reason understand by itself what is lawful and what is forbidden without Allah saying: "This is forbidden, this is lawful"?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: You did not answer me.
The questioner : If we say reason ... .
The Shaykh: You did not answer me.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.