The claim that disbelief does not occur except through denial: does this not conflict with the chapters on apostasy in which the scholars have classified certain acts as apostasy in and of themselves?

The Shaykh: All praise is due to Allah; we praise Him, seek His help, and seek His forgiveness, and we seek refuge in Allah from the evils of our own souls and the badness of our deeds. Whomsoever Allah guides, none can misguide, and whomsoever He misguides, none can guide. And I bear witness that there is no deity but Allah alone, with no partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and His Messenger. As for what follows: The best of speech is the speech of Allah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his family). The worst of matters are their newly invented ones, and every newly invented matter is a religious innovation, and every religious innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Fire.
This meeting was held to fulfill the desire of some of our brothers, for whom and for us a previous gathering had taken place in which some scholarly research was conducted. Then some of them wished to accompany me in my vehicle or car to follow up on the questions or research they had. And what Allah (Mighty and Majestic) had decreed of research and knowledge took place, and this meeting ended when we arrived at the house. Some of those with us mentioned that there was a remainder of the research. Now I want to say: whoever wishes to continue with what we were doing previously and to raise what relates to what was researched, let us research it again. Otherwise, this is their right, for I believe the session was for this purpose. Otherwise, I would have improvised a word, perhaps Allah (Mighty and Majestic) would benefit with it. So what is your desire?

The questioner: We continue the research.

Another questioner: We continue the research.

Another questioner: Both together, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: We continue the research and a word from you, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh: Very well, so what do you have then?

The questioner: Our Shaykh, the truth is that the research that took place last time was about some issues of faith and disbelief. It is, in a way, some difficulties in our minds that are not clear to us, especially since the speech of some of our contemporary shaykhs has become confused in this regard. We would like some clarifications on some issues, especially since, for example, there is a new book that was presented, which we mentioned, namely the book "al-Taqrib" by our brother Murad. From the issues that our brother Murad mentions in his book is that disbelief does not occur except through denial, either by denying a fixed, definitive text or by denying a fixed, definitive meaning. Does this not conflict with the chapters on apostasy in which the scholars have stated that there are matters of acts that are apostasy from Islam in and of themselves, and do not fall under the category of denial, as the Shaykh Ibn Baz stated in his explanation of the Tahawiyyah? May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh: Do I understand from your question that apostasy occurs without the intention of the apostate?

The questioner: By Allah, according to what we understood from the speech of some scholars, yes, that there are acts that are apostasy in and of themselves, even if the apostate did not intend them, meaning.

The Shaykh: Even if he did not intend them.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: Beautiful. Here a question arises. We assume two Muslim men, or at least they appeared to be Muslim on the surface, and then an act appeared from them that necessitates apostasy for them. We assume that one of them was intentional, and there is no dispute in that. We assume that the other was not intentional. Do they become equal, for example, in the implementation of his saying (peace be upon him), which is established in "Sahih al-Bukhari": Do they become equal, for example?

The questioner: By Allah, according to what we understood from the speech of some scholars, yes.

The Shaykh: Very well, now you say: some scholars. Is it not possible that there is some other group?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: Yes, the answer is very well. Then I want to mention, for remembrance benefits the believers. The Lord of the Worlds (Blessed and Exalted is He) says: And it is obligatory for the student of knowledge, truly, that when he stands before an issue in which the scholars have disagreed, at that time he has no choice but one of two paths: one that is attainable by every Muslim, and the other that only one who has a strong degree of knowledge can attain. This type is specific to the strong students of knowledge, and it is to them that the saying of our Lord (Blessed and Exalted is He) is directed: As for if he is of the other type, meaning: from the general people, and he does not have the scholarly ability to weigh one statement against another and one evidence against another, then at that time this type has another research that may take some expansion and detail, so we postpone it now, even if for a short time. If the speech now is with some students of knowledge, as it appears, and Allah knows best, we say: If some of the scholars equate the two persons, the one who apostatized from his religion intentionally, then the previous hadith is applied to him without dispute or contention. But if it was without intention, such as due to ignorance, or negligence, or any other reason, then I believe that such a statement conflicts with the Noble Qur'an and the authentic hadiths. You certainly know that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) says: And you may know, and I hope you pay attention to my distinction between the first knowledge and the other knowledge. I said that you know that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) says: Then I said: And you may know, and I am mentioning, for remembrance benefits the believers, that when we discuss with some students of knowledge some issues, we find that they do not place the word in its proper place. They say as I said just now, but I say, and I am not proud, I mean what I say. When I distinguished between my first saying "you know" and my other saying "you may know," many students say: It may be so. I say: What I answered is that this stubbornness is met with its like. You say: It may be so, and I say: It may not be so. So this answer, in military expression, is "hold your position," we do not advance at all. But a person must sometimes be cautious and say "may," and in this place now I say: You may know that this verse does not mean the person of the Messenger only, but it means the call of the Messenger. And if the verse means the person of the Messenger initially, then the verse means the end of the call of the Messenger.