A group of employees each contribute a monthly installment of money, which is then collected and given to one of them by lottery?
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The questioner : ... and so on until they finish the number, each one taking the amount... so what is the ruling on...?
The Shaykh: This is, in principle... among these partners, and that is if we assume ten of them joined in such a partnership, each one—for example—deposits one thousand riyals every month, and they agree that at the end of the month, the group of ten thousand riyals is taken by one of them by lottery. Up to here, it is fine. But it may happen that one of the partners, for one reason or another, stops paying, and he has already taken twenty thousand in exchange for one thousand. So then, how is it permissible for him to take ten thousand in exchange for what? One thousand. And peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy and blessings. And it may happen, for example, that one of them dies, and the situation is the same: he took a certain amount of money in exchange for a trivial sum. In this regard, it is most like insurance companies, where the participant pays a fixed amount every month or every year, and then years may pass without an accident occurring, yet he still pays the company this amount for nothing.
The questioner: Even if it is stipulated, Shaykh—for example—in the case of...
The Shaykh: ...for nothing.
The questioner : Please, Shaykh.
The Shaykh: And conversely, and this happens often, it may be that only a very short time has passed since paying the first insurance installment, and then an accident occurs and the car is destroyed. So the company compensates him for this car anew. Where did the company get the value of this car? From the group, for no accident. This is gambling itself. So here, if this matter of participation is in the category of[Al-Ma'idah 5:2], and there is leniency in people's hearts, and there is not, by Allah, so-and-so took this much for one payment and then what? He stopped participating, and so-and-so paid twice and took his share, and here I have not yet reached my turn. It is true that it is by lottery, but his turn has not come yet, so he continues to pay, praise be to Allah, until his turn finally comes.
If there is no leniency of heart—and this is what I consider unlikely in this time—therefore I see that there is a concern with this participation.
The questioner: Well, Professor, these details, meaning the statistics over, for example, ten or fourteen years... none of these hazards have occurred even once...
Another questioner: And no dispute has occurred.
The questioner: Meaning, no dispute has occurred.
The Shaykh: No, a dispute might not have occurred, but does not what we described happen?
The questioner: They all paid.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner: Is there no one who defaulted on payment? They are all lenient, considering that this is a benevolent loan they are doing.
The Shaykh: Well, that is the intention.
The questioner: This is what is happening. This situation has continued, meaning, for fourteen years. I know this group of employees does this, and they are all lenient, and they consider it in the form of a benevolent loan; so that each one of them benefits from the amount that accumulates for him, and this does not happen.
The Shaykh: The basic condition is leniency.
Another questioner: And leniency exists even in...
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner: Even in homes, from...
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Well; what did you want to say?
The questioner: I mean, even if it is agreed in advance that in the case of death, it is divided among everyone, is there no harm in it, or... is there a dispute?
The Shaykh: Divided among everyone?
The questioner: Zayd took the first one.
The Shaykh: I ask one question only.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: What is it that is divided?
The questioner: The amount that the deceased took.
Another questioner: Did the rest of them forgive it?
The questioner: Yes, it is borne by everyone.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner: So, is there also ambiguity in the association?
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: No, if it is like this, it will be softer and better.
The questioner: But, praise be to Allah.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Is this it, then?
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner: In the case of one withdrawing, as you mentioned; he took it and then left and did not return and did not... in payment.
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Meaning, the principle of leniency...
The Shaykh: This is the original basis. Do you have something?
Another questioner: I think there is a possibility that some people will exploit this, withdrawing as long as the door is open...
The Shaykh: Yes, what did you say?
The questioner: No, I mean, he commits to paying and does not withdraw until he completes the period.
Another questioner :Sahih al-Bukhari 2387 .
Another questioner: The swindler, his existence is possible, meaning.
The questioner: The important thing...
Another questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: It was mentioned or it was not mentioned. If you mean your question was mentioned in the sense that it came—meaning in a book of hadith—then the answer is: Yes, it was mentioned. And if you mean by your saying "it was mentioned" that it is authentic, then the answer is: It was not mentioned.
The Shaykh: This is, in principle... among these partners, and that is if we assume ten of them joined in such a partnership, each one—for example—deposits one thousand riyals every month, and they agree that at the end of the month, the group of ten thousand riyals is taken by one of them by lottery. Up to here, it is fine. But it may happen that one of the partners, for one reason or another, stops paying, and he has already taken twenty thousand in exchange for one thousand. So then, how is it permissible for him to take ten thousand in exchange for what? One thousand. And peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy and blessings. And it may happen, for example, that one of them dies, and the situation is the same: he took a certain amount of money in exchange for a trivial sum. In this regard, it is most like insurance companies, where the participant pays a fixed amount every month or every year, and then years may pass without an accident occurring, yet he still pays the company this amount for nothing.
The questioner: Even if it is stipulated, Shaykh—for example—in the case of...
The Shaykh: ...for nothing.
The questioner : Please, Shaykh.
The Shaykh: And conversely, and this happens often, it may be that only a very short time has passed since paying the first insurance installment, and then an accident occurs and the car is destroyed. So the company compensates him for this car anew. Where did the company get the value of this car? From the group, for no accident. This is gambling itself. So here, if this matter of participation is in the category of
cooperate in righteousness and piety
وتعاونوا على البر والتقوىIf there is no leniency of heart—and this is what I consider unlikely in this time—therefore I see that there is a concern with this participation.
The questioner: Well, Professor, these details, meaning the statistics over, for example, ten or fourteen years... none of these hazards have occurred even once...
Another questioner: And no dispute has occurred.
The questioner: Meaning, no dispute has occurred.
The Shaykh: No, a dispute might not have occurred, but does not what we described happen?
The questioner: They all paid.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner: Is there no one who defaulted on payment? They are all lenient, considering that this is a benevolent loan they are doing.
The Shaykh: Well, that is the intention.
The questioner: This is what is happening. This situation has continued, meaning, for fourteen years. I know this group of employees does this, and they are all lenient, and they consider it in the form of a benevolent loan; so that each one of them benefits from the amount that accumulates for him, and this does not happen.
The Shaykh: The basic condition is leniency.
Another questioner: And leniency exists even in...
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner: Even in homes, from...
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Well; what did you want to say?
The questioner: I mean, even if it is agreed in advance that in the case of death, it is divided among everyone, is there no harm in it, or... is there a dispute?
The Shaykh: Divided among everyone?
The questioner: Zayd took the first one.
The Shaykh: I ask one question only.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: What is it that is divided?
The questioner: The amount that the deceased took.
Another questioner: Did the rest of them forgive it?
The questioner: Yes, it is borne by everyone.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner: So, is there also ambiguity in the association?
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: No, if it is like this, it will be softer and better.
The questioner: But, praise be to Allah.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Is this it, then?
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner: In the case of one withdrawing, as you mentioned; he took it and then left and did not return and did not... in payment.
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Meaning, the principle of leniency...
The Shaykh: This is the original basis. Do you have something?
Another questioner: I think there is a possibility that some people will exploit this, withdrawing as long as the door is open...
The Shaykh: Yes, what did you say?
The questioner: No, I mean, he commits to paying and does not withdraw until he completes the period.
Another questioner :
Whoever takes the money of the people with the intention of repaying it
من أخذ أموال الناس يريد أداءهاAnother questioner: The swindler, his existence is possible, meaning.
The questioner: The important thing...
Another questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: It was mentioned or it was not mentioned. If you mean your question was mentioned in the sense that it came—meaning in a book of hadith—then the answer is: Yes, it was mentioned. And if you mean by your saying "it was mentioned" that it is authentic, then the answer is: It was not mentioned.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.