What is the ruling on what some people do: a specific number of them gather and impose on each one of them to pay a specific amount, the total of which is given to one of them, then
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The questioner : What is the ruling on what is called the association? For example, a group of people gather and collect, for instance, one hundred, one hundred, one hundred, and at the end of the month they give it to one person, then the next month to the second
The Shaykh : This is known. This morning we were discussing this issue. Is there a written agreement regarding this association, or is it just talk between some of them?
The questioner : I mean, how is the agreement?
The Shaykh : I mean, for example, I say that up to this hour I answer that this is not permissible. Why? Because it falls under the category of gambling. If it were not under the category of "every loan that brings benefit is usury," why is it under the category of gambling? So, one of the people, the first one, takes the total amount of money at the end of the month. It might be a thousand, it might be two thousand, depending on the group or depending on the rate saved each month. The one who paid, for example, one hundred, takes thousands. It is possible that a cause may befall him, and there are many causes that prevent him from continuing in this partnership or this association. The worst thing that can be imagined and the most oppressive thing by which people are oppressed is death. So, in exchange for one hundred, he takes thousands. What are these thousands? They were taken at the expense of the others. This resembles risk and resembles gambling. But if there is a system or regulation to clarify the status of each person, even in an abnormal situation, for example, if he stops paying monthly, he has a special treatment such that none of the participants is wronged, and the one who took the thousands is not at the expense of the others, and they do not regret when there is no time for regret. Did you understand what I intended by my question? For example, what do they call this? A system, a system, a system. Yes. So, if there is no system, the issue is gambling. The issue is gambling. And I think there is no system; this is just an agreement.
The questioner : Just an agreement.
The Shaykh : That is it.
The questioner : And the problem is that it is between brothers.
onAl-Halabi : If it were written and there were witnesses, for example...
The Shaykh : Writing does not solve the problem, because legally, as you know, the words of the believers are binding upon them according to their conditions, whether written or not. Writing today is a matter of caution and prudence, but I want the writing, as it is said today, to put dots on the letters.
onAl-Halabi : Clarifying that if he dies
The Shaykh : Yes, that is it. If he is absent, if he travels, if he falls ill, etc.
onAl-Halabi : I mean, if with these conditions
The Shaykh : Yes, it makes the matter easier.
Another questioner : There is another matter. We can add to the reason you mentioned that a lottery is held to determine who takes first, second, and third. And this, I believe, is also not permissible, because the one who comes at the end takes his amount late. He loses his chance compared to the one who took first or the second person. When we are ten people and pay monthly, one of them, by lottery, and it also falls into the same category you mentioned. May Allah reward you all with good. He takes the first share, and the last one comes out in the lottery. He also needs to take the last share. There is a time of ten months during which the one who took first can utilize the money.
The Shaykh : Yes, this can also be regulated. It can be regulated.
Another questioner : There are no regulations.
The Shaykh : It is possible if it is regulated, but the matter is loose. Yes, is there anything else?
The Shaykh : This is known. This morning we were discussing this issue. Is there a written agreement regarding this association, or is it just talk between some of them?
The questioner : I mean, how is the agreement?
The Shaykh : I mean, for example, I say that up to this hour I answer that this is not permissible. Why? Because it falls under the category of gambling. If it were not under the category of "every loan that brings benefit is usury," why is it under the category of gambling? So, one of the people, the first one, takes the total amount of money at the end of the month. It might be a thousand, it might be two thousand, depending on the group or depending on the rate saved each month. The one who paid, for example, one hundred, takes thousands. It is possible that a cause may befall him, and there are many causes that prevent him from continuing in this partnership or this association. The worst thing that can be imagined and the most oppressive thing by which people are oppressed is death. So, in exchange for one hundred, he takes thousands. What are these thousands? They were taken at the expense of the others. This resembles risk and resembles gambling. But if there is a system or regulation to clarify the status of each person, even in an abnormal situation, for example, if he stops paying monthly, he has a special treatment such that none of the participants is wronged, and the one who took the thousands is not at the expense of the others, and they do not regret when there is no time for regret. Did you understand what I intended by my question? For example, what do they call this? A system, a system, a system. Yes. So, if there is no system, the issue is gambling. The issue is gambling. And I think there is no system; this is just an agreement.
The questioner : Just an agreement.
The Shaykh : That is it.
The questioner : And the problem is that it is between brothers.
onAl-Halabi : If it were written and there were witnesses, for example...
The Shaykh : Writing does not solve the problem, because legally, as you know, the words of the believers are binding upon them according to their conditions, whether written or not. Writing today is a matter of caution and prudence, but I want the writing, as it is said today, to put dots on the letters.
onAl-Halabi : Clarifying that if he dies
The Shaykh : Yes, that is it. If he is absent, if he travels, if he falls ill, etc.
onAl-Halabi : I mean, if with these conditions
The Shaykh : Yes, it makes the matter easier.
Another questioner : There is another matter. We can add to the reason you mentioned that a lottery is held to determine who takes first, second, and third. And this, I believe, is also not permissible, because the one who comes at the end takes his amount late. He loses his chance compared to the one who took first or the second person. When we are ten people and pay monthly, one of them, by lottery, and it also falls into the same category you mentioned. May Allah reward you all with good. He takes the first share, and the last one comes out in the lottery. He also needs to take the last share. There is a time of ten months during which the one who took first can utilize the money.
The Shaykh : Yes, this can also be regulated. It can be regulated.
Another questioner : There are no regulations.
The Shaykh : It is possible if it is regulated, but the matter is loose. Yes, is there anything else?
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