A discussion between the Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) and one of the preachers regarding the harsh words attributed to the Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) due to his fatwa advising the Palestinians to emigrate.

The student : For the sake of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He), for Allah will not let their deeds be lost. And because of my faith in this, and I mean because of my faith in this, I incite people in my Friday sermon and in my lesson at home to cross the river and fight the Jews. And by the grace of Allah, the first person to hear my words was my son. He crossed the river eleven months ago, and I consider him a martyr, though I do not declare him so before Allah (Mighty and Majestic). He fought the Jews for two full hours, he and the three with him, until the Jews resorted to four helicopters in that battle. They met their Lord (Glorified and Exalted is He). We cannot say that they are martyrs, but we consider them as such, because martyrdom, as all my brothers know, is tied to the servant's intention. If he intends the face of Allah (Mighty and Majestic), then Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) records it as such. I say this and I seek forgiveness from Allah for myself and for you, for He is the Forgiver, the Merciful. And may Allah send prayers upon Muhammad.

The Shaykh : ... It is as if you have left the topic for another issue, so you have not clarified your view on emigration. Be patient with me a little; we are learning from you now, heh heh. Suppose that I was wrong in everything I heard just now, and that I was wrong in encouraging Muslims to flee from the might and tyranny of the Jews over Muslims, and so on, all that you know from me. Suppose I was wrong. What do you say about someone who says of this man that he is a Jew?
The student : The matter is up to you. If you forgive him, then your reward for that is with Allah.

The Shaykh : This is a deflection.
The student : Allow me.

The Shaykh : No, no, no, I do not allow you to not answer the question.
The student : I am answering. I do not flee, if Allah wills. I say that whoever describes a Muslim as a disbeliever without a valid reason has himself fallen into it, and may Allah protect us from that.

The Shaykh : Shaykh, may Allah bless you.

The questioner : When a Muslim says of a Jew, or of a Muslim, that he is a Jew, there is no doubt that this is a serious statement, and it is not permissible to describe one's Muslim brother as a Jew.

The Shaykh : This depends on the intention, yes, but the question was not about me. About me, I spoke about my view on emigration, that it has categories, and that it is... and I mentioned in some gatherings, as I told some of our brothers, "O people, I have not written a book or a treatise on the topic of emigration so that I might encompass it from all its sides and aspects. So now it occurred to me to say that emigration is obligatory for one who is exposed to the harms we mentioned and is able to emigrate. But if he is not able, then Allah does not burden a soul beyond its capacity. So now, may Allah bless you, I am asking you: what do you say about a man who declares publicly, in a Friday sermon, that this one is a Jew, and this one is a deceiver and the Shaykh of the Shayatins, and so on, while he knows and testifies in the same sermon that this man is... what did he say? He leads a nation, or what does he say? Yes, he leads a generation, and he is upon the Book and the Sunnah, and so on. But unfortunately, he spoke about emigration, and so on, all that talk. Does this mean it is permissible for him by the Shari'ah to exploit the sermon and Friday, to stir up all the people in the mosque, and then spread scandal among all the Muslims? Here, a preacher in this Friday and a preacher in the next Friday repeat the same story... and as you heard just now, I mentioned that they said to you, "This is a Mason," and "This is such and such," and so on. Who stirred up this fitnah? It is this preacher who said of the one who spoke about emigration that he is a Jew, an agent of the Jews, the Shaykh of the deceivers, and the Shaykh of the Shayatins, and so on. I am amazed, O Abu So-and-so, Abu what are you?
The student : 'Az al-Din Abu Salah.

The Shaykh : So you are Abu Salah.
The student : (may Allah have mercy on him).

The Shaykh : How can I be amazed at the Muslims? These people took this word and made a big deal of it. Why do they not look at these words that came from this preacher, on a Friday, in a sermon where he contradicted the Sunnah in its lengthening and in what is of no benefit at all to the people present? So my question is: has anyone from the people of knowledge, virtue, and understanding said to him: "Suppose, O Shaykh, that this man was wrong in saying that it is obligatory for the Palestinians to emigrate, and he interpreted that as making Palestine a mouthful for the Jews. I say all this is slander and fabrication, and so on." I have not heard anyone, and do not hold me to this, and you are one of them, say that it is not permissible for this man to insult this Muslim, who is known to him to be a Muslim, who prays, fasts, and calls to the Book and the Sunnah, and so on.
The student : Allow me. Because of my concern for the truth, and I ask Allah that it be so, without self-praise, I sat with my brother 'Abd al-Rahman yesterday for about half an hour discussing this topic. Then he said to me, "If you wish to sit with..."The Shaykh : ... then I will arrange for you to sit with him tomorrow. So in fact, I have sat with you twice: once, as I mentioned to you, in Jeddah, and once when we visited you in your home between Maghrib and 'Isha, nine years ago, in the home where you are now.

The Shaykh : Here, I mean.
The student : Yes, and we have met more than once, some in mosques and some in the street. This is by the grace of Allah. I mean, I remember, but you, because of the many people you meet, are excused if you forgot one you met today and then passed by you a week later. So my brother 'Abd al-Rahman, may Allah reward him with good, said to me, "The situation is such and such," and he explained the topic. Then he said to me, "If you wish to meet..."The Shaykh : ... then I can make it possible for you tomorrow. So I said, "By Allah, I would like to, and Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) knows that when I expressed my desire, I did not know what dish my brother, may Allah reward him with good, would serve." So he said, "Then please come tomorrow." So...The Shaykh : ... and his brothers and my brothers are guests at my place tomorrow. And this was an appointment, so, if Allah wills, I am seeking the truth. And one of the conditions of a Muslim is that when he knows the truth, he follows it, from whatever tongue it comes. But O esteemed...The Shaykh : ... the question I asked you, you have not answered me. When was this fatwa, so that I can know and link the events to one another?

The Shaykh : You are asking me, and I asked you. I clarified the question. Allow me to understand from you how you clarified it. I did not hear you say that no one, and you are one of them, condemns this preacher for saying of a Muslim man that he is a Jew, and saying "Curse him," and that he is a deceiver, the Shaykh of the deceivers, and the Shaykh of the Shayatins, and so on. Why the evasion? Allow me.
The student : O our esteemed Shaykh, he mentioned that in a Friday sermon in the Hamza Mosque, as I know, he preaches there. And I am not one of the people who pray behind him. I preach the Friday prayer in southern Amman.

The Shaykh : Did it reach you?
The student: Yes, it has reached me.

The Shaykh : This matter.
The student : So when it reached me, I wanted to know the truth. I can call him. I called Ibrahim Zayd al-Kilani to ask him about what I heard, because one of the teachers in al-Husayni Mosque, about ten days ago, taught on this topic and was questioned and discussed, but there was confusion, so the truth was not known either. Perhaps, if Allah wills, we will reach the truth, and if Allah wills, each will have his role in clarifying the truth and averting harm.

The Shaykh : But you are deflecting, may Allah bless you. Religion is advice. It is not befitting for you to deflect from the answer. There are two issues: one concerning me, and one concerning the preacher. You understood the one concerning me well, but you are asking when it was. Suppose it was at this hour. Allow me. Suppose it was an hour ago. Suppose it was ten days ago. Allow me.
The student : Allow me. May Allah be pleased with you. I was told that this fatwa was three years ago, and that stirring it up at this time is intentional. If this report is true, then the situation has one aspect. And if the fatwa is recent and the comment on it came after, then the situation is another.

The Shaykh : In any situation, in any situation, it is not permissible for a Muslim to accuse a Muslim of being Jewish or a deceiver, and so on. I told you, and I am still saying, and I hope you are being fair as I said, allow me here. There are two matters concerning me, and I have several tapes regarding this matter, some from years ago and some raised on every occasion. The matter concerning me, I understood it well, and praise be to Allah, it contains nothing but what fully agrees with the Shari'ah. Another matter concerns this preacher who exploited the pulpit of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) to incite people against a Muslim man, the least that can be said about him is that he described him as a deceiver, as the Shaykh of the devils, and as a Jewish agent. Is he not a Jew? And he cursed him. I am asking you, why are you not frank as you said? Allow me, O Shaykh, may Allah guide you, may Allah guide you.
The student : Do you want me to call him now to tell him what is required? This is what will happen... Allow me, the situation now is that we are understanding what happened. Then, if I fulfill my duty, my reward for that is with Allah. If I fall short, my reckoning is with Allah. If He wills, He will punish, and if He wills, He will forgive. I ask Allah to forgive.

The Shaykh : If I say to you such a word, the matter is finished.
The student : As for me, if I have performed...

The Shaykh : If I say to you, I said this word, whether I was right or wrong, the case is finished.
The student : I have clarified my opinion on the matter from its foundation.

The Shaykh : I am only asking about myself, O Shaykh, may Allah guide you.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh : I am only asking about myself, meaning you say a word. If I am right, so be it, and if I am wrong, I ask for forgiveness from Allah. You are speaking about yourself.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh : I am saying now, as I said, the problem is finished. Is the problem not finished? Why? Because this person who started this bad custom spread the sin among people, and people started talking about this man. You are a witness when you heard that man say this, and he says more than this, that he is a Mason, and so on. Who bears the burden of these lies? Say it frankly, the one who preached to the people bears it. So you are saying, as soon as I told you, forgive him, or if he forgives me, I am only asking you, does he forgive him or not? Is it permissible for him to exploit the pulpit to wrong me? At least leave that aside, that he declares me a disbeliever and misguides me. And I told you just now, I have not heard a person say the word of truth that this is not permissible. You said just now, by Allah, I have not heard his sermon, and I testify that I have not heard his sermon, but I heard what he said in the sermon regarding this man. So what is obligatory upon you, may Allah bless you? It is obligatory upon you to forbid what is wrong, and there is no possibility for a person below you in knowledge and experience to say, "By Allah, there is a possibility that it is permissible for this man to say that he..."The Shaykh : ...Al-Albani is Jewish, or I say what he says. Therefore, I say, if it is unavoidable, mention that this fatwa is a mistake. But the strongest of my intention is that I consider the migration (hijrah) at the least to be a mistake. But I testify to Allah that it is correct, because I have the Book and the Sunnah and the consensus of the Ummah. The migration continues until the Day of Resurrection. And if I wanted to raise a discussion with you now, your words about the Palestinians and so on would go to waste. What is the migration that continues until the Day of Resurrection? If I wanted to, but this is not the place for it now. But I want to draw your attention to the fact that in my worst case, I am wrong. If I am wrong and he is right in what he said?
The student : No, without a doubt.

The Shaykh : So I am saying now, before this gathering, I have not heard a man say, as he accuses me, that I was wrong. He did not say that...The Shaykh : ...the preacher was wrong, as you said. Allow me.
The student : I testify to Allah that I heard someone who was wrong...The Shaykh : ...in his sermon. I testify to Allah, and I do not say that to please you... As for me, I heard someone who heard the tape and commented on it immediately, saying that this is not permissible. I heard, you did not hear, correct, but I heard.

The Shaykh : Yes, yes, when we say we did not hear, allow me, O Shaykh.
The student : You are sincere, my dear brother. There are those who were wrong, and I am among them in this fatwa, and there are those who were wrong in their comment, because the number of people who heard your fatwa was limited, but those who heard the sermon were thousands.