When the perspective of science (experimental) and the perspective of the Shari'ah differ, as in the issue of sunrise and sunset, and another example is the saying of Allah the Exalted:

The questioner : What is it that you say? That there are things that differ between science and religion? No, according to what I have seen...

The Shaykh : Were you not with us when we gave some examples?

The questioner : I saw... In my science, there is a difference regarding the formation of the shadow of this night for the one on the earth who has night, and for the one above the earth who sees the sun in front of him. I finished writing, for example, there is an example in the Qur'an .

The Shaykh : What do you think of the examples we mentioned? Does science say the sun rose and set?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : How? I mean, it is not absolutely absent from the earth.

The questioner : The sun rose for the people in that region.

The Shaykh : This is for the...

The questioner : So there is a shadow...

The Shaykh : ... May Allah guide you ...

The questioner : Okay, I will bring you an atlas...

The Shaykh : Listen, listen. We do not want to talk about this now. Does science say that the sun sets and rises? Or that the sun is always shining, and it is only because of our rotation around the earth that there is night and day?

The questioner : But.

The Shaykh : Not just that, and just answer my question. I mean, are you just going to talk? You have to answer.

The questioner : The sunset and sunrise, but it does not go up and down...

The Shaykh : The other picture we talked about is that when we see the sun above the mountain, the sun is here.

The questioner : No, it does not make a difference except a few centimeters. Because of the atmosphere, there are only refractions.

The Shaykh : When the disk is here, touching the top of the mountain, it will be behind...

The questioner : ... small because of the atmosphere, but...

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, my brother. What you see, you say the sun has risen, right? You see the sun has risen, it will be here, but is it not clear here?

The questioner : It is not clear...

The Shaykh : No. It is not clear, ... Muhammad wants to speak, he says, that is enough.

The questioner : I want to give an example...

The Shaykh : The examples are in front of you. Deal with the examples that were put in front of you...

The questioner : There are things in religion that they used to consider...

The Shaykh : I am telling you, deal with the examples in front of you. You are not to say anything from yourself now, because we want to clarify the issue, we do not want to complicate it.

The questioner : How? Now the sun rises and sets, that is it. It has risen and set, scientifically and religiously.

The Shaykh : The sun never disappears. It is rotating, it does not disappear, but it is relative to us. We think, scientifically, the sun does not set and does not rise, correct?

The questioner : For those on the earth...

The Shaykh : Do not make excuses for me. I am telling you, correct? Tell me correct or not, so we can proceed in the discussion, and I see that you want to speak.

The questioner : It moves, but we rise...

The Shaykh : This is a problem.

The questioner : What will he tell me.

The Shaykh : What will he tell you, okay.

The questioner : A second example. I want to speak about an example.

The Shaykh : Okay, good, if Allah wills. Please.

The questioner : First of all, Before they knew how to interpret it, they considered "marj" (flowing) as what was sent, and they considered the "barzakh" (barrier) to be a solid barrier. But now, as science has proven that the barzakh is an invisible barrier, but there is a barrier that is not solid. For example, two seas next to each other, a sea and a river, a river and a river. One has a density of one or two kilograms, and the other one. One has a temperature of twenty-seven, and this one twenty-six. And the temperature remains the same in each place because of this invisible barrier. You do not see it. It is not new; before, they considered it to be solid, and it turned out to be wrong. Then, a Frenchman, I know, one of the experts in the seas in the world, named Jacques Cousteau, became a Muslim because of this barrier, because it was not proven except after fifteen centuries. This is an example, I am done.

The Shaykh : I am done, O Allah, amen.

The questioner : ... it does not fit with religion. There is no science that differs with religion, because according to what science has proven, the things that the Qur'an clarified, which they used to consider nonsense in the past, science has now proven that this is the truth and that what they thought was wrong.

The Shaykh : Okay, now I want to ask you a question.

The questioner : So if science now proves that something in the Qur'an is wrong, it is science that will be wrong.

The Shaykh : Good, now I want to ask you a question. This contact that happens between fresh water and salt water, does it not mix eventually? I mean, does the barzakh not go away?

The questioner : No, it is supposed to mix, but it does not mix.

The Shaykh : How not? I mean, now when the Nile is poured into the Mediterranean Sea, it is completed, I mean, with all the crashing waves, is it completed? I mean, is the fresh water of the Euphrates distinct from the salt water?

The questioner : It changes, it remains. I will make it clearer for you.

The Shaykh : No, you did not make it clear to me. I want to understand from you first, and then you make it clear to me. How long is the Mediterranean Sea, extending from the Syrian coast to Spain and the Strait of Gibraltar? My question is not for you to answer me, I know? No. But is the water of the Nile pouring into this sea distinct?

The questioner : They have not proven it. It remains distinct.

The Shaykh : I do not think you... I do not claim knowledge in this issue, but I do not think you are speaking with knowledge.

The questioner : I will tell you how it happens, ... it changes with the water of the sea. There is water from the sea going to the Nile. This is in the book.

Another questioner : I mean, if there are two rivers next to each other, adjacent, then they mix with each other at a point, then they separate, does each of them remain with its same properties...

The Shaykh : You have just added, be patient. The man is speaking from his place. You have to be patient with him. You have just added to his words, "then they separated," correct?

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, here in the picture we are asking about, is there separation?

Another questioner: No.

The Shaykh : Okay, is there mixing?

Another questioner: No.

The Shaykh : How is it not?

Another questioner : Yes, there is mixing.

The Shaykh : He is not able to say there is mixing, because what is in his mind... but tell me, is there mixing or not?

The questioner : There is mixing, but there remains a barrier.

The Shaykh : What is the barrier?

The questioner : They mix, but like the interpretation of the Qur'an.

The Shaykh : Leave me alone for now. Show me naturally, scientifically, naturally, how you say there remains a barrier. What is the barrier.

The questioner : Look, for example, the sea is here and the Nile is here. There will remain a barrier here if they are at the same height...

Another questioner:: ...

The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah guide you. Do not expand the issue on us. The Nile flows into the Mediterranean Sea and it is completed, okay, it is distinct. Be patient. You want to help us understand and for us to understand, not to distance us from the issue.

The questioner : ... if the height is the same between the water of the Nile and the water of the Mediterranean, there will be a barrier of water. This will flow, but from the sea, it will not go to the Nile. Its density will remain the same, and this one's density will remain the same, and the temperature of the Nile will remain the same, and the temperature of the sea the same. It does not mean that it will not go from the Nile to the sea, but there is a barrier, and this barrier does not prevent the water of the Nile from going to the sea...

The Shaykh : And it mixes with the water of the sea?

The questioner : Yes, but there remains a barrier.

The Shaykh : Since you say there is a barrier, it means it did not mix.

The questioner : This barrier separates between two densities...

Another questioner: ...

The Shaykh : He believes the words of the Westerners more than necessary.

The questioner : This is the word of the Qur'an according to scientific miracles.

The Shaykh : No, I want to draw your attention. I said that it became clear that the statement of the exegetes was wrong. This is a mistake from you.

The questioner : No, there is another thing that also came out, like what the exegetes say...

Another questioner : ... one of the Muslim scholars says that... He did not mean the river and the sea, and he proved that the Qur'an has verses that are about the sea and about the rivers. So he said "the two seas" that it is actually the two salt seas. So the theory reached that it is in the same sea, which for us appears as if it is two seas, in a region where the water density and temperature differ from the other, and between them is this barrier, such that the water that exists in this region in the same sea does not mix as a result of this barzakh that exists between them. But if you move the water of the sea...

The Shaykh : The one who was saying that they do not mix, why doesn't he respond to you and say that they do mix...

The questioner : They do mix, but only in certain things...

Another questioner : Water and a river mix, but I am talking about the same sea...

Another questioner : Muhammad, is this theory about the Nile and the sea?

The questioner : River and river, and sea and river, and sea and sea.

Another questioner : Yes, yes, according to the density of each one...

The questioner : All of this...

Another questioner : That it is river and river, and sea and river, and sea and sea, there is always a barrier between them...

Another questioner : These are specific equations, Professor. His statement is correct. An equation comes in one direction, and if it is from land to sea water, it comes in a specific form, of course, with a head... in a specific way. His statement is logical...

The Shaykh : Do not say logical, say scientific.

Another questioner : It is scientific, Professor. It is from the perspective of sweet water and salty water at this imaginary line he speaks about in a style... here you find the line, and like this sweet water, and a line, and like this salty water. The density he speaks about is that some particles may equalize in density and in heat, so mixing occurs between these particles only. Do you understand how it is, Ali?
Abu Malik: Let me clarify the picture. No, no... the mixing happens, but means there is a place, a specific point for the salty and the sweet, but this is it, meaning he knows the salty from the sweet, but...

Another questioner : They do not seek to dominate, meaning one does not overpower the other, and what happens is that the particles equalize with each other. Let me illustrate with a simpler example. We say, of course, that groundwater exists everywhere. Near the sea, it is toward the dry land. So if you came and took a vertical well column toward the sea, close to the sea, at a distance of thirty meters, you would reach an area where sweet water comes up. You see this a lot in Alexandria, which is why they make the Alexandrian well eleven meters deep, going down to bring up water, and then they pour concrete and so on. This sweet water remains, they keep pouring, Professor, until they reach the salty water. Do you understand how it is, Ali? For example, if it is very close to the sea, it reaches the salty water after thirty meters. Here it filters, meaning the example might be half of this well. This well close to the sea, after three meters, the salty water reaches, then after four meters it reaches, then after four meters it reaches, then after eight meters. The line goes in this shape, the line in this exact shape. Do you understand how it is, Ali? Here is salty water and here is sweet water. This is what he is talking about. The densities are different, yes, without a doubt, and the heat is different.
Abu Malik: There is a matter much clearer than this. Here, when the salty water comes with the sweet fresh water at a point that cannot be crossed, what is called this imaginary barrier, it cannot move from one place to another. This barrier remains eternally present. This is it...

Another questioner : Based on the densities.
Abu Malik: Yes, it remains because the density of the water in the same sea or in the two seas...

Another questioner : This line he was talking about a moment ago...

Another questioner : It is a simple thing. Now take a cup of tea, put in hot water and put in sugar. Hold the tea spoons, the tea remains separated in two colors. This remains, but you are free to stir them, and they will mix. Therefore, when the water descends...

Another questioner : You are asking about flowing water, a river in a specific course that entered the water at a distance of half a kilometer. According to its speed, if we assume its speed is, let's say, one hundred kilometers per hour, at a distance of half a kilometer, it mixes with the water, it mixes completely. He is not talking about this. This is a second picture...

The Shaykh : ... but you say no, and he says yes. What is the benefit?

The questioner : No, I said river and river, and river and sea, and sea and sea.

Another questioner : He gave this example because he believes that you are saying there is a contradiction between science and religion...

The questioner : They did not let me explain.

The Shaykh : The questions are telling you to explain.

The questioner : Okay, here there is salty water and here there is salty water. There is a difference between them. The important thing is that water comes from here, the particles enter the second salty water, but some enter from the other side too. It becomes like a circle, it rotates. Water with a different density enters, compensating for what entered with the same quantity and the same degree of heat. The same thing, the degree of heat from here returns and rotates again by one degree.

Another questioner : This is the beginning of the error we are talking about.
Abu Malik: Exactly. Well done, may Allah reward you. Now it is clear.

The Shaykh : ... .