A scholarly discussion between Shaykh Al-Albani and Shaykh Al-Abaylan regarding the issue of Hajj Tamattu' and the issue of the one who abandons prayer.

The Shaykh : A man performed Hajj Qiran and slaughtered the sacrificial animal. What do you say about his Hajj?

The questioner : By Allah, according to the statement of the majority of scholars, his Hajj is valid.

The Shaykh : Fine, and what about you?

The questioner : By Allah, I have something in my heart. I see that the Lawgiver, may peace and blessings be upon him, commanded people to relax and exit the state of ihram. When he came to Fatimah and rebuked her, he said, "You are right, you are right." So the person returns on the Day of Sacrifice and falls into that which... that is my intention, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you, O Shaykh. Is this not the method of the people of opinion (Ahl al-Ra'y)?

The questioner : Yes, yes, refuting evidence with evidence.

The Shaykh : Why do you say this?

The questioner : I take comfort in it, but I take comfort in "do it, there is no harm." He was never asked about anything to be brought forward or delayed except that he said .

The Shaykh : My brother, I answered you: Is it permissible to throw the pebbles before the time? Say no.

The questioner : It is not permissible.

The Shaykh : If you apply "do it, there is no harm," does that mean the matter is left to our desires and appetites?

The questioner : That is not my intention, O Shaykh...

The Shaykh : My brother, your intention is to remove hardship, I understand you. Removing hardship is not up to us...

The questioner : I am not speaking about throwing the pebbles after the sun passes its zenith...

The Shaykh : I am not speaking about throwing the pebbles, but I am bringing you closer to that which you find difficult. Yes, I am bringing you closer to that which you find difficult by that which you do not find difficult, meaning . Now, if a man wants to delay the circumambulation (Tawaf) for two or three days, what does he do? Is it permissible for him to have relations with his wives?

The questioner : It is not permissible for him to have relations with his wives.

The Shaykh : Fine, remove the hardship from him...

The questioner : But the first exit from ihram (Tahallul) has a specific, independent text in a hadith

The Shaykh : The first exit is not our point of disagreement. The first exit is the lesser exit. Now I am telling you: if he delays the circumambulation, is it permissible for him?

The questioner : But would he fall into hardship if he did not have relations with women?

The Shaykh : Or how would he not fall into the exit? Perhaps a man is lustful, passionate...

The questioner : ...But I imagine the Shaykh al-Islam said he remains in his ihram and returns, and does not touch perfume...

The Shaykh : So, is touching perfume now more dangerous? Or touching women?

The questioner : I only mean...

The Shaykh : No, it is fine, but you must submit yourself to the text, not treat the text with opinion...

The questioner : No, that is not my intention...

The Shaykh : I am not speaking about your intention, may Allah bless you. I am speaking about your wording.

The questioner : My intention was that I mentioned what I benefited from: it is better for scholars and muftis to make things easy and facilitate for people. And you say, "Facilitate according to the evidence." That is your intention. But I was saying, are not those hadiths, with their strength, clarity, and abundance, like ...?

The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah be pleased with you. These are reported in specific places. Do you extend them to other places? Say no. Do you extend them to other places? Say no, say yes.

The questioner : I do not extend them to other places.

The Shaykh : Fine, you are extending them.

The questioner : Only in this issue, O Shaykh. I do not feel any hardship in throwing the pebbles before the sun passes its zenith, O Shaykh. Perhaps the throwing extends into the night.

The Shaykh : Am I speaking to you about throwing the pebbles now? I am more lenient than you regarding throwing the pebbles, but I am telling you: the issue of returning to his ihram as it was before, there is no dispensation (rukhsah) for that in our view. We have a Prophetic command. So either it is authentic in your view, in which case it must be followed and spread, or it is not authentic, in which case we are relieved of it...

The questioner : And if the one in ihram does not do it in Hajj?

The Shaykh : It is like any other thing while he is in ihram; he is sinful... But you and I are equal here. The one who declares the one who abandons prayer a disbeliever does not differentiate, and I, who rule that he is a Muslim and not a disbeliever, do not differentiate. So why use the language of emotions, saying "if he did not pray in his entire life, not even once"? That is the language of emotions.
Another questioner: The one who does not pray in his entire life, it appears that he is lying about the Shari'ah of Allah.

The Shaykh : His case is left to Allah. But look now at how the ruling differs. This one who has not prayed in his entire life, or has only missed one prayer in his life, this one or that one, if he is presented with the sword, his head is struck, and he is told, "Either you pray or you are killed," and he prefers death over prayer, he dies as an apostate. Why? Because the material evidence has been established. But between him and his Lord, whether he never prayed, or prayed a little, or a lot, etc., by what do we take him out of the religion? And assuming he testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. But I am amazed by the scholars, especially in your country here, who teach you that the one who abandons prayer is a disbeliever, and specifically by laziness, not denial. There is no disagreement regarding denial, yes. How do they not see the hadith of intercession (shafa'ah) reported in the two Sahihs, that when the believers enter Paradise, they say, "O our Lord, we have brothers who used to pray with us, perform Hajj with us, fast with us, and strive in the path of Allah with us, but we do not see them. They have entered the Fire." So Allah says, "Look, and whoever you find among them in the Fire, bring them out." So they bring out a great number. Then they say, "O our Lord, we have brought out a great number." He says, "Look, and whoever you find in his heart the weight of a dinar of faith, bring him out of the Fire." Would these be people who prayed?

The questioner : They entered the Fire for another reason...

The Shaykh : I did not notice. The first group, they said, "They used to pray, and so on," and he said, "Bring them out of the Fire." And in another group.
Another questioner: A category of the first.

The Shaykh : This is another group, they are not...
Another questioner: They pray in their homes and do not pray in congregation. The first category...

The Shaykh : You have strayed from the topic.

The questioner : May Allah reward you, and .
Another questioner: The first category prays with us. It appears they pray with us in congregation in the mosques. And the second category, those who remained in the Fire, perhaps they prayed but in their homes?

The Shaykh : Perhaps.

The questioner : This is a possible probability.

The Shaykh : No, it is not a possibility. Listen to the completion of the hadith .
Another questioner: Good, absolutely.

The Shaykh : Good, absolutely.

The questioner : Did he not say "There is no god but Allah"?

The Shaykh : What is your opinion? He did not do any good at all.

The questioner : Meaning he did not say "There is no god but Allah"?

The Shaykh : No. Faith. You are rushing now. Either you reject the hadith or you believe in it. I do not think, I do not think, but it remains: either the second option, you do not reject the hadith, because the hadith is agreed upon by al-Bukhari and Muslim. So why do you interpret the hadith with an interpretation that no Muslim accepts? Meaning, they did not say "There is no god but Allah." This is it. So look , meaning from the righteous deeds. As for faith, it is necessary because it is the foundation. So this hadith is not mentioned at all in this context, even by Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (may Allah have mercy on him), who collected the evidence of both parties. He did not mention the hadith in detail, but only in this last sentence. So what do we do with it? As for the hadith , its answer is known, because not everyone who is said to be a disbeliever in the sense of apostasy is...
Abu Layla: ...

The Shaykh : Nothing flew away with you... meaning they put you as a barrier for the people...
Abu Layla: ...