Follow-up to the previous question: Is it permissible to attribute movement and direction to Allah the Exalted?

The Shaykh : The first time, you used a term that is not found in the texts, which is "direction." The second time, you denied the meaning established in the Shari'ah in the verses of istiwaa' (rising above the Throne) and elevation. Have I made this clear to you?

The questioner : It is clear, but do not the proofs you mentioned indicate that He moves?

The Shaykh : We do not say that, my dear. We do not say He moves. If we were to say that the meaning of "He came" implies movement, that would mean we are attributing to our Lord a quality that we know for ourselves or ascribe to Him. Therefore, listen, my brother, that is why we brought the verse: He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing. But His hearing and seeing are not like our hearing and seeing. Now, when we see something, does the eye move or not?

The questioner : Of course, it can move, and it can not.

The Shaykh : No, it is not possible. Stay here, do not move your eye so we can see.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : For how long?

The questioner : For a specific period.
Al-Halabi : We want the moment when you see or do not see.

The Shaykh : It is in every moment. In the moments when you are seeing, do you never move your eyelid? Look, this is the philosophy that has led people astray.

The questioner : In the moment that I am seeing.

The Shaykh : Yes, in the moment that I am seeing.

The questioner : I never move my eyelid, ever.

The Shaykh: It is not possible.
Al-Halabi : Do not say "ever." The word "ever" means to infinity.

The Shaykh : No, no, allow me. The movement of the eyelid, my brother, it seems you are understanding it now like this. Like this, he does not see, but if it is like this, he sees. That is, the movement. Now, when a human stares at something, the space between his eyelids narrows a bit. So you think that anyone who wants to look must move his eyelid. This is a mistake. The point of all this is that now, when you want to look with your eye, the eyelid must move a little or a lot. But even so, let us approach this from another angle. When you look, you look with the pupil, the white of the eye, the eyelid, and so on. Do we describe our Lord with these qualities because He is All-Seeing? Why?
Okay? Now, when you want to interpret the divine coming as the divine descent, you imply that it necessitates movement. Where are you taking this necessity from?

The questioner : From us.

The Shaykh : From us, meaning we have likened the Lord of the Worlds to us. And from here, the Mu'tazilah and their like went astray. How is that? First:

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Allow me, allow me. You are not saying anything. Just listen now.

The questioner : I just want to clarify my point of view.

The Shaykh : No, I will clarify it for you now. May Allah guide you.

The questioner: Amen.

The Shaykh : You should state your point of view before, not during the listening to the answer.

The questioner : Okay.

The Shaykh : So, from here, the Mu'tazilah and their like went astray. How?
When they heard: immediately it came to their minds that His hearing is like our hearing, and His seeing is like our seeing.
It came to their minds that the Hand of Allah is like the hand of humans... and so on. and so on. It came to their minds from these attributes by which Allah described Himself that they are the attributes that exist with us. Do you see how? Okay.
These attributes mean that Allah likened His state to that of His servants. Yes, tashbih (likening Allah to creation) is obviously invalid. Therefore, they said: Since there is tashbih of the Creator by the created in these verses, and tashbih is invalid, we must interpret the verses figuratively (ta'wil) and not take them at their apparent meaning, so that we do not fall into what? Tashbih. Do you understand how?
Now, regarding the issue of movement. They understood from "coming" that it necessitates movement, and they understood the same from "descent." Movement is an attribute of the created. So, if our Lord does not come or descend, we say: We affirm the attribute by which He described Himself, without tashbih and without what? Takyif (asking how an attribute is).
Do you understand how? So, do not ask why we denied movement? We denied it because it was not mentioned.

The questioner : I meant, for example, a movement befitting His Majesty?

The Shaykh : Movement, allow me a moment. Is a movement befitting His Majesty established, or is a coming befitting His Majesty the established thing?

The questioner : I mean, for example, on the day...

The Shaykh : Answer, may Allah guide you. Answer, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : Shaykh, please go ahead.

The Shaykh : Do you see how? You should state what you mean first. When the question comes to you, you go back and say "I mean," and it never ends. State what you mean first. I am telling you now: Is a movement befitting His Majesty mentioned? Has this movement that befits His Majesty been mentioned?

The questioner : Like hearing, meaning how...?

The Shaykh : Answer, my dear. Answer. Say it was mentioned, or say it was not mentioned. Let it be and let us be.

The questioner : No, it was not mentioned.

The Shaykh : Okay, if the doubt is in your hand, why would you say something that was not mentioned? It is like someone saying that our Lord has hair.

The questioner : Far be it from Allah.

The Shaykh : But what?

The questioner : It is not like our hair.

The Shaykh : It is not like our hair, my dear. This attribute, you are describing your Lord with an attribute. Has this attribute been mentioned in the Book and the Sunnah? No, it was not mentioned. Let it be. We are not at all with those misguided people regarding the attributes that Allah affirmed for Himself. On top of that, they want to deny them (ta'til). And adding a straw to a camel's load, and a note in the drum, and a drop in the clay, we bring attributes from ourselves and add to them what? Be fitting to His Majesty. Do you know what the problem is? I did not understand!

The questioner : I understood you.

The Shaykh : So?

The questioner : He has a question: Our Shaykh?

The Shaykh : Yes, yes, how?

The questioner : The verse: Repeat it three times?

The questioner Meaning the attribute of the leg?

The Shaykh : Speak, my brother, what do you have?

The questioner : Does it not indicate the movement I am referring to? Clarify for me the interpretation or meaning of this verse, if possible?

The Shaykh : Why are you prolonging this now? But the truth is not against you. Listen a bit. Now, we were discussing "coming," correct or not?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, now why did you move to: Have we finished with the first one?

The questioner : No, I want to cite evidence.

The Shaykh : Have we finished with the first one?

The questioner : No, I want to cite evidence.

The Shaykh : Have we finished with the first one, three times? Question: Is the world night or day? There is no answer. Tell me, night or day?

The questioner : Night.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you. Do not waste our time. There are others who want to ask. Be patient. Be patient. If we do not be patient with people, these people would not gather.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good. May Allah bless you, our teacher.

The Shaykh : Do you see how? We were discussing "coming," and we showed you that we believe in "coming" as an attribute of Allah Mighty and Majestic, but we do not add to it meanings we know from ourselves, which is movement. Certainly, when we say so-and-so came to the house, what is the implication? There is movement. Now, when we hear our Lord describing Himself as having come and as descending, it is not permissible for us to add to this divine attribute an attribute that exists in ourselves and is concomitant with human coming, so we add this attribute that exists in ourselves to the divine coming. This is tashbih. And so, I thought we had finished with you, that we describe our Lord with what He described Himself with. With what did He describe Himself?
He came. Movement? We told you earlier, did movement come as one of the attributes of Allah? You said, a movement befitting His Majesty. I gave you an example: someone says Allah has hair, but hair befitting His Majesty? We did not benefit from any of this talk. You jumped, with the help of your companion there, to the day when the leg is revealed!
My dear, when we finish the first discussion, you take the answer from yourself, from your understanding of the answer to the first discussion, and you are at ease with all the verses. Did we reach anything with you regarding: That there is no necessary connection between "coming" and movement except by the human attribute? We have finished with that. So, it is not permissible for a Muslim to say that Allah moves, nor is it permissible for him to say He does not move, because neither of these was mentioned. As we told you, is Allah in a direction? We do not say He is in a direction, and we do not say He is not in a direction. But we ask Him what it means that Allah is in a direction?
It means that Allah is above the Throne, having risen above it (istiwa') as befits His Majesty. We tell him: The meaning is correct, but the word is wrong, because you used a word that did not come in the Sunnah, which is "direction."
So now, we have benefited from you with this explanation regarding: and the examples we gave you, and you are fully convinced that we do not add anything to the Qur'anic or Prophetic attribute, and we stop at the divine or Prophetic expression. Did we agree on this or not? If we agreed, and praise be to Allah, and I tell you, your question about: the answer is the same as for: and so on.
And if we have not agreed, then rushing the matter and jumping from one verse to another, a second, a third, and a fourth, is not proper, whether we have agreed or there is still ambiguity in the issue?

The questioner : We agree.

The Shaykh: All right, what is the difference then between "came" and "the Day when the leg is uncovered" , like "and [He] came"? We believe as it came, because the attributes of Allah must be believed in from the perspective of "they believe in the unseen."

The questioner: Allahu Akbar.

The Shaykh: But no asking how (takyif) and no denial of the attributes (ta'til).

The questioner: I do not ask how, I do not ask how.

The Shaykh: And when you say "movement," where did you get it from? This is not asking how. You took movement from humans and attached it to the Lord of humans.

The questioner: Hearing is the same thing, from humans?

The Shaykh: How?

Another questioner: But the word "hearing" is established.

The questioner: And sight is the same thing?

Another questioner: It is established.

The Shaykh: If we have not agreed, we have gained nothing, we have gained nothing! My dear, we told you: "Your Lord came" is established in the Qur'an, but "Your Lord moved" did not come, neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah. In any case, you have to put up with us, and may Allah help you with us.
Al-Halabi: Our Shaykh, the issue of the debate between Imam Abu al-Hasan (may Allah have mercy on him) and the Mu'tazilah between the word "the Wise" and "the Intelligent"?

The Shaykh: Allahu Akbar, how?
Al-Halabi: The word "the Wise" has the same meaning as "the Intelligent." It is not permissible to affirm that Allah is "Intelligent," even though it is affirming that Allah is "the Wise." Why? Because that is how the Book and the Sunnah came. Likewise, we understand the meaning of "coming" as movement, but we do not affirm movement for Allah because He did not affirm it for Himself, and we affirm for Him "coming" as He affirmed it for Himself. So Allah described Himself, and the Messenger described his Lord, so we believe in what Allah described Himself with and what the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) described his Lord with, and success is from Allah.