Who leads the prayer: the one who is late for the obligatory prayer or the one who offers a voluntary prayer? And if the one who joins is a child?

The questioner : When I, Adnan, joined you, you offered the prayer to me, so Adnan says that I should lead because I am the owner of the house, given that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) , with him, is a following pronoun, as a follower or as an imam?

The Shaykh : No, he is the follower; the one who prays with him, the one who joins, is the imam, and this one is the follower.

The questioner : Even in his house.

The Shaykh : Even in his house.

The questioner : You are right, O Shaykh Adnan.

The questioner : My master, regarding the question that 'Isam asked and I gave the answer to, the matter arose between us when 'Isam came to pray Maghrib, and Adnan had not yet prayed the sunnah, so Adnan says that 'Isam should lead on the basis that Adnan has prayed the obligatory prayer, so it occurred to me that our master Mu'adh (may Allah be pleased with him) used to pray with the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) as a follower, then he would go to his people and pray as an imam, and he would pray with the intention of a voluntary prayer, while they prayed the obligatory prayer, so this is a door for the permissibility of the imam praying a voluntary prayer while the follower prays an obligatory prayer, so the apparent proposal, and I agreed with it because I practice this thing, because as long as Adnan has not yet prayed the voluntary prayer, let Adnan pray in his house, let Adnan lead his voluntary prayer, and let Dr. 'Isam pray his obligatory prayer.

The Shaykh : I understood the opposite.

The questioner : No, this is the reality.

The Shaykh : How? Did you not pray as an imam? And then what did you say to him? You said to him, "You are right."

The questioner : I said to Adnan, "You are right," because Adnan followed the hadith of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) regarding offering a voluntary prayer to one who has come...

The Shaykh : Never mind, I do not want an argument, but I understood that what you did is Adnan's opinion.

The questioner : Adnan's opinion, that I lead because we followed the hadith of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : This is Adnan's opinion.

The questioner : That I pray as an imam.

The Shaykh : Never mind, I am asking a question, is this Adnan's opinion?

The questioner : Yes, O my master.

The Shaykh : Abu Yahya says, "No, this is not Adnan."

The questioner : Tahir and Zuhair said the other opinion, that Adnan prays a voluntary prayer, and I pray with the intention of the obligatory prayer behind them, behind them, and he prays as an imam.

The questioner : The hadith of Mu'adh, that he was an imam, and the proposal was that Adnan prays the sunnah later, so he brings the sunnah and 'Isam follows him in the obligatory prayer.

The Shaykh : Okay, never mind, this is one aspect, and the aspect that occurred?

The questioner : The aspect that occurred is the opposite, that Adnan did not pray...

The Shaykh : My brother, we are not asking about the opposite, correct. But is it permissible by the Shari'ah or not permissible?

The questioner : How is it permissible by the Shari'ah?

The Shaykh : ... So what is the purpose of this?

The questioner : We are asking about the best and the most excellent?

The Shaykh : Okay, when you come to the matter he mentioned, which is: except a man who offers a voluntary prayer to this one and prays with him, and when you come to the matter of the leadership of the owner of the house, is the one more deserving of recitation considered, the principle of the one more deserving of recitation.

The questioner : It is not considered, but the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) is taken, the hadith is taken, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Yes, that is not considered, now you prayed the congregation in the mosque and a man was late, so he wanted to pray alone, so the one who reminded the congregation who are praying, except a man who offers a voluntary prayer to this one and prays with him... prays with him as you all understand, meaning he prays as a follower of him, since this one who is followed is more knowledgeable than that one who joined, does the matter reverse, so he becomes the imam, and the one who joined becomes the follower.

The questioner : No, absolutely not... Is the one who is always better taken...

The Shaykh : Here now, recitation is not considered, because it is an incidental matter, this one is late for the congregation and wanted to pray alone, so one of the congregation, even if he is the best reciter and the most memorizer of the sunnah, his duty is not to lead, his duty is to follow, yes, meaning this issue is one of dozens of issues that are taken by their reality, and do not enter into the general rule, clear?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, and therefore when you brought the incident of Mu'adh, we of course acknowledge it and call to it, but your incident is in its situation, and this is another incident for its situation, so each has its role and its scope.

The questioner : Now when Adnan prayed as a follower, did Adnan pray the voluntary prayer or did he pray a voluntary prayer other than the regular sunnah?

The questioner : He offered it to him...

The Shaykh : Listen, Dr., may Allah guide you, do not become... others are for you, ... he reminds me of the story of that farmer and the village preacher, the preacher came to a man who owns a chicken coop, he said, "O Shaykh, every time I enter my coop I feel that feathers are being stolen from it, and I do not know who the culprit is," he said to him, "Okay, I will arrange the matter for you, but it seems he agreed with him on a few dirhams, but he said to you, "Come on Friday," the preacher went up on the pulpit and said: "Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds, and blessings and peace be upon the master of the messengers," and so on, "As for what follows: Fear Allah, O servants of Allah," and so on, "What is the matter with one of you stealing his neighbor's chickens and then coming to the mosque with chicken feathers on his head," no one saw him except one who did this, meaning he put his hand on his head, ... after the prayer he said to him, "This is your debtor," to the owner of the coop, and our man here knows his situation, and therefore I say, cover yourself, O Professor, I told you at that time, cover yourself, ...

The questioner : And then everyone knows I am the one meant.

The Shaykh : Okay, why do you not cover your situation, what does "cover your situation" mean? It means do not do an action that requires you to cover it, that is its meaning, not that you do it and then cover your situation, yes, where did we reach?

The questioner : We reached that the one who comes who has not prayed the obligatory prayer is the one who becomes the imam, regardless of other considerations such as recitation and knowledge of the sunnah.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : ... Now Adnan did not pray the confirmed sunnah of Maghrib, does Adnan pray with 'Isam with the intention of the regular sunnah, or does he pray a voluntary prayer and then come to the sunnah?

The Shaykh : No, he prays the sunnah, of course.

The questioner : Now the situation has another detail.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : The one who joins who has not prayed the obligatory prayer is a boy.

The Shaykh : A small boy, the one who joins, yes.

The questioner : So is the incident taken as it is, and thus the operations of priorities such as recitation and age and the like are dropped, or how?

The Shaykh : Do you know the story of the boy who used to lead the bearded man, or rather the bearded men?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : No, do you know it, how do you not know it, but perhaps we are going to give you the first thread, a man named 'Amr ibn Abi Salamah, a boy and then he became a man, his father was from the Ansar who believed in the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) before the migration, then he and groups of men from the city came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in Mecca, so they returned and they brought a new ruling, which is the congregational prayer, there was no congregational prayer before, there was prayer but there was no congregational prayer, and with this new ruling , this boy said: "So they looked and did not find in the city anyone who recited better than me, so they put me forward as an imam, so I prayed with them," did you know the completion of the story or not yet?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : Strange, okay, he said, "So I prayed with them," and his age in the narration is disputed between seven years or nine years, but he said, "So when I finished the prayer, one of the women shouted, 'Do you not cover your imams' buttocks from us?'" Do you remember now?

The questioner : Yes, I remember.

The Shaykh : He said, "So they bought me a cloak, and I did not rejoice in anything as I rejoiced in this cloak," is this not a boy? A boy who led the men in the congregational prayer, because he was the best reciter among them.

The questioner : This is my talk.

The Shaykh : No, this is not your talk, this is my talk, we said that this general principle, how is your talk, my talk.

The questioner : You have invalidated, O my master.The Shaykh : I have invalidated and said the impermissibility...

The Shaykh : Allow me, allow me, did we not tell you that the rule is preserved, but every incident is given its ruling, and how do you say that I invalidated it?

The questioner : You invalidated that the one who recites more leads, you invalidated it, and the age and the owner of the house and the like, because that one came and said, "Whoever offers a voluntary prayer to him and prays with him."

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you. If you had spoken these words, we would have said, "We are not surprised." I have always said that we must combine the hadiths. When we combine the hadiths and apply each hadith in its proper place, it does not mean that we have invalidated the second hadith; rather, we have specified it. That is, we say: "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them, except in such-and-such a case." "The eldest of the people leads them, except in such-and-such a case." Where do we take the word "except" from? From the other hadiths. For example, what does "A man does not lead in his domain" mean? Does it mean because he is the most knowledgeable of the people? The answer is no. So in such a case, you say "no." I agree with you, "no," in one other case, but the difference between you and me, Abu Yahya, is that I do not say to you that you invalidated the hadith. I say to you that you specified the hadith. I say, "May Allah forgive you," that is good.

The questioner : I am still trying to understand, and you have not answered me. You gave me the rule, and now you have not answered me regarding the boy.

The Shaykh : How have I not answered you? Glory be to Allah, this boy falls under the general principle: "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them." So you brought up an incident at that time: if the one who entered was a boy, is that not the case? Well, this specific incident... Well, I am telling you that what is more important is the rule.

The questioner : Well, this did not apply to the man who led and prayed.

The Shaykh : Also, my sir, the rule applies to the one in authority who leads him, because he leads him. "A man does not lead in his domain." So I asked you: this man who does not lead in his domain, if he were a boy, the best thing would be to follow your approach. If he were a boy, does he lead or not?

The questioner : The boy, in the presence of what?

The Shaykh : It is coming to you now. Does your boy lead in the house or not?

The questioner : In his domain?

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : If he is not the most knowledgeable in the Qur'an?

The Shaykh : My brother, answer me: does he lead in his domain or not?

The questioner : He leads in his domain.

The Shaykh : Well, what if there is a foreign shaykh who leads and is more knowledgeable than him?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : Ah, you have invalidated the text.

The questioner : ... .

The questioner : Let me say the following. The situation has changed. Let us say that we have prayed the obligatory prayer, and you entered, and we know who is more knowledgeable in the Qur'an than you.

The Shaykh : Let us memorize now and agree on the scenario that shows we are in agreement, and that we are indeed in agreement. Is this boy, who is the one in authority, the most deserving of leading, and there is a man older than him in age and more knowledgeable in recitation, and you said, "You, the boy, are more deserving," is that not what you said?

The questioner : No, I said... he memorizes the Qur'an.

The Shaykh : My brother, I am telling you that I understood it this way. Tell me, yes or no?

The questioner : No, my opinion is that the most knowledgeable in the Qur'an leads, even if he is praying with him.

The Shaykh : Allow me a moment, leave that aside. Now we are talking about the obligatory prayer; that one is easier. Now the prayer has been called for, the one in authority is not the most knowledgeable of the people, nor is he the eldest of the people, and there is someone who is greater in knowledge, recitation, and age. Who leads?

The questioner : The most knowledgeable in the Qur'an.

The Shaykh : Well, what do you do with the hadith "A man does not lead in his domain"? Now, according to your approach, you have invalidated the hadith.

The questioner : We specified it, we did not invalidate it. Let us return to our topic.

The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah. Be patient, we have not yet agreed on what to do with the hadith.

Another questioner : Do you act upon it or not?

The questioner : Which hadith?

The Shaykh : لا يؤم الرجل في سلطانه ؟ A man should not be led in prayer in his place of authoritySunan an-Nasa'i 783

The questioner : We take the other hadith and reconcile the two hadiths.

The Shaykh : Which other hadith?

The questioner : The one about the most knowledgeable in the Qur'an.

The Shaykh : I am telling you, what do you do? Do you act upon the hadith?

The questioner : Which hadith?

The Shaykh : لا يؤم الرجل في سلطانه ؟ A man should not be led in prayer in his place of authoritySunan an-Nasa'i 783

The questioner : We did not say that this specifies that.

The Shaykh : So tell me, which is the specifying and which is the specified?

The questioner : That is for you to know, so why are we asking you?

The Shaykh : Yes, yes, he is looking at you. Listen for a moment, allow me. Now, finally, we have understood something from you that we did not understand before, and that is your admission of what distinguishes the specifying from the specified. Good, and may Allah reward you with good. Whereas at first, we understood from you that you specified the hadith يؤم القوم أقرؤهم لكتاب الله The people should be lead by the one who is most well-Versed in recitation of the Book of AllahSunan Ibn Majah 980 with the hadith لا يوأم الرجل بسلطانه A man should not lead the prayer in his area of authority.. Whereas at first, we understood that you specified the hadith "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them" with the hadith "A man does not lead in his domain." That is how we understood it at first. This understanding is wrong, and it is correct that it is wrong, that you did not intend it, but it is correct. Hahaha. Look, Professor, so that you may be at ease and increase in knowledge. Always, the one with the lesser ruling takes precedence over the one with the greater ruling, and not the other way around; that is, the lesser is excepted from the greater. "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them" is a general text. Then comes لا يؤم لرجل في سلطانه A man should not lead the prayer in his area of authority., a specific ruling. So it is said: "A man does not lead in his domain, even if there is someone more knowledgeable than him, someone older than him, someone more learned than him, because this is a specific case." So when this case becomes apparent to you, and we arrive at the following conclusion: "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them, except for what is excepted." What is excepted? If we want to recall scenarios now, the first is the ruler. And the intended meaning of "ruler" here is the supreme ruler, then the owner of the house, the lower authority. Good, this is the first one. Then the scenario we discussed, which was the subject of disagreement: a man enters the mosque and finds that the people have prayed. It is said to these praying people, "Except for one man who gives charity to this man and prays with him." So one of them stands up and prays with him, and he does not lead him, even if he is more knowledgeable than him, even if he is older than him in age, and so on. It comes to mind now, and also in the "sparrow" method, which is throwing two sparrows with one stone. I say this hadith is ألا رجل يتصدق على هذا فيصلي معه Is there any man who may do good with this (man) and pray along with him.Sunan Abi Dawud 574. In a narration, the man who stood up was Abu Bakr al-Siddiq. This is the first sparrow. The second sparrow is that the narration has weakness. I do not like you to take it from me as an authentic narration, but now, according to this narration, was Abu Bakr here a follower or an imam? He was a follower, because the Messenger of Allah said, "Let him pray with him." So here, the general rule, "The most knowledgeable of the people in reciting the Book of Allah leads them," does not apply, because this is a specific imamate, in a narrow and very narrow circle, like the imamate of the ruler in his domain. So this is like that. Just as we excepted the first one, and it is necessary to except it from the general rule, so we except the other one, and it is necessary to do so. Otherwise, we would invalidate the first and second hadiths, we would invalidate لا يوأم الرجل في سلطانه A man should not lead the prayer in his area of authority., and we would invalidate the hadith ألا رجل يتصدق على هذا فيصلي معه Is there any man who may do good with this (man) and pray along with him.Sunan Abi Dawud 574, and that is not with me.
Abu Yahya: I mean, if the boy prays as an imam.

The Shaykh : As a follower. For him to pray as an imam in what form?
Abu Yahya: The boy prays as an imam.

The Shaykh : We have finished with that form.

The questioner : And the boy prays as an imam if he is the ruler of the house.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : Even if there is someone more knowledgeable than him in reciting the Qur'an.

The Shaykh : I mean, now Abu Muhammad... a sparrow. His son Muhammad is not in the house, so he leads the congregation, even if...The Shaykh : Al-Albani, excuse me, if...The Shaykh : Ali is present... because you, sir, are the imam, I have no imam, do you see how...

The questioner : That in the scenario where our brother 'Isam prayed with 'Adnan in his domain, we now presented his imamate over the ruler.

The Shaykh : This is a specific scenario that we do not go beyond. It is itself how much we did not go beyond it. He prayed, the ruler prayed the obligatory prayer, and he was given precedence over him.