A dialogue between the Shaykh and one of the attendees from the members of the al-Mujahid magazine for da'wah and preachers in Afghanistan.

The questioner : The point of the matter is that the al-Mujahid magazine, meaning the brothers tasked me with meeting you and taking some questions. Naturally, in addition to that, there are questions for me personally, questions for some of the brothers in Qatar, some of the brothers there, and questions related to jihad. So the important thing is that these questions may be numerous.

The Shaykh: Perhaps

The questioner : They may be numerous, so if possible, the meeting could be held over several sessions and so on.

The Shaykh : In any case, meaning after finishing answering the questions that our current time allows us to address tonight, after that, every event has its own story. For example, the session might be long and the questions few, or the session might be long and the questions many, but the answers do not necessarily increase. Sometimes it is exactly the opposite; an answer to a single question may take more time than a whole session. Therefore, I do not see any wisdom in saying anything now about this multitude that you referred to. Rather, as we said, every event has its own story.

The questioner: May Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : Yes, very well, my lord, in any case, we ask Allah to guide the steps of the Muslims and unify their word, because the time is very difficult, and how many times I sat withThe Shaykh ؟
the mujahid: approximately six months.

The Shaykh : Six months, so during your six-month stay there, was your contact with him frequent?
The mujahid: Yes.

The Shaykh : How did you find him?
The mujahid: By Allah, as it appears to us, and to the brothers present, their adherence, what Allah willed, is good to the Book and the Sunnah, and the da'wah is also good, except for the non-Arabs who did not mix with...

The Shaykh-laughs- he patches it up.
The mujahid: This is true, and it is known and present, and I felt it even in others among those who claim Salafiyyah, or those who call to Salafiyyah, meaning there remains some bid'ah (religious innovation), and some ignorance of certain matters. The hadiths are also so in terms of authenticity and weakness. But in terms of 'aqidah (creed) and the general methodology, meaning rejecting taqlid (blind following) and the existing schools, I went to them and looked into their methodologies. So they study the book "Tawhid" (The Oneness of Allah), "Al-'Aqidah al-Wasitiyyah" (The Middle Creed), and the books of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah and others. So this is something, and praise be to Allah, I found it good.

The Shaykh : Good, but I think in your last words you did injustice to the scholars of the non-Arabs by elevating the scholars of the Arabs.

The questioner : No -laughs-.

The Shaykh : Did you understand me? I do not think you understood me.

The questioner : No, I understood you, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : How do you mean?

The questioner : Because when you lowered the status of the scholars of the non-Arabs, it seemed as if by the opposite implication you elevated...

The Shaykh : I did not understand you, this is the beginning of your speech. I am talking about the end of your speech.

The questioner : The end of my speech, which part is it? Perhaps I do not remember it.

The Shaykh : It is this.

The questioner : Our Shaykh, he is far from you now, it has been a year.

The Shaykh-laughs, may Allah have mercy on him- in any case...

The questioner : He understands it on the fly, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : If Allah wills, meaning and in your description of the general scholars of the non-Arabs, there was in this description a description that also applies to the scholars of the Arabs.

The questioner: Correct.

The Shaykh : Did you know what it is?

The questioner : Yes, exactly.

The Shaykh : What is it?

The questioner : The common description in this matter is the presence of the existing bid'ah (religious innovation) and...

The Shaykh : This is true, but the matter is more precise than that; because among the scholars of the Arabs who are with us in denying bid'ah (religious innovation), there are those who do not know the hadith either. So this point is also a common point between these and those. So if another opportunity comes, and your speech requires you to speak or answer with such an answer, this statement should be crossed out.

The questioner : Correct, and may Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : And you, unless you have another opinion, and this is a second discussion -laughs, may Allah have mercy on him-.

The questioner : Authentic
Abu Layla : This, O our Shaykh, we recorded it against him.

The Shaykh : How?
Abu Layla : We recorded this statement against him.

The Shaykh : -He laughsThe Shaykh-may Allah have mercy on him- but it is good that the account is not recorded against him.

The questioner : And in any case, the return was also recorded...

The Shaykh : Yes, -laughs, may Allah have mercy on him-, therefore I said: do not record an account against him.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah, and may Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : And how old isThe Shaykh ؟

The questioner : Naturally, I did not ask him about his age...

The Shaykh : It is not necessary, but you can estimate...

The questioner : But I can estimate over sixty.

The Shaykh : Over sixty, he must have children?

The questioner : He has children, yes.

The Shaykh : The eldest approximately?

The questioner : I did not see the eldest, but I saw that he is married to two wives, I saw of his children, meaning one of the age of fourteen years.

The Shaykh : Does the practical Salafi direction appear on them, or on what you saw of them? Or not?

The questioner : No, this did not appear on them, but I saw that he disciplines, meaning some of his children, regarding prayer, delay and so on.

The Shaykh : Then he resides in a province, as I had been informed, from Afghanistan.

The questioner : His group is the one residing in the province.

The Shaykh : And what is it?

The questioner : In Peshawar.

The Shaykh : Does he not frequent the group?

The questioner : He frequents the group, but his residence and his family's residence are in Peshawar, yes, it is the Kunar region, it is the only province approximately that was completely liberated from Afghanistan from the communists. And this province, by the grace of Allah -Mighty and Majestic-, the Salafi da'wah in it, meaning, is widespread, meaning, a good spread. In any case, there are other parties in this province, and yet you find their 'aqidah (creed), praise be to Allah, due to their mixing with the Jama'at Jamil al-Rahman, their 'aqidah (creed) is correct...

The Shaykh : And what do you mean by the word "other parties"?

The questioner : Because they are all parties.

The Shaykh : No problem, is there for example a Ba'athist communist or so, what do you mean?

The questioner : No, no, but the other parties because they became partisan, so they named some of them, meaning the Islamic Party, and some the Association, and some so and so, yes...

The Shaykh : So you mean by parties, Islamic parties...

The questioner : Islamic parties, yes.

The Shaykh : Meaning like the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Tabligh Jama'at, for example, among us.

The questioner : Meaning in any case, not all of them are of this type, some of them...

The Shaykh : Meaning a comparison from a specific angle, which is that they are Muslims.

The questioner : Yes, Muslims, naturally.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : But among them are Sufis, and so on.

The Shaykh : This Islamic Party is the one headed by Hakim Yar, whom they call?

The questioner : Hakim Yar.

The Shaykh : Yar, ah, this word Yar, what is the word Yar?

The questioner : By Allah, the word Yar, I do not know...

The Shaykh : Did you not learn -still- Afghan?

The questioner : ... its translation, but I have forgotten it now, perhaps the brother Imran knows, he is of Pakistani origin.

The Shaykh: Tell us what you have.

The questioner : Our Shaykh, its meaning is beloved or dear, Yar.

The Shaykh : Yar means beloved, Yar: beloved. And Hakim?

The questioner : Hakim is from wisdom.

The Shaykh : This is the apparent meaning, but how is the Arabic composition?
The mujahid: Beloved of wisdom, possible.

The Shaykh : No, I do not think so, now for example, Ghulam Ahmad, understood what? Servant of Ahmad, it is like that, so Ahmad is a proper name, so here Ghulam Ahmad is a compound noun, Ghulam Ahmad means Servant of Ahmad, so how is the literal translation of Hakim Yar?
The mujahid: By Allah, I do not know.

The Shaykh : You do not know, good, if Allah wills. And your knowledge of Hakim Yar, the head of the Islamic Party, does he resemble the Muslim Brotherhood or does he differ from them?
The mujahid: O Shaykh, I did not sit with him and I do not know.

The Shaykh : You do not know. Good.

The questioner : He is in any case one of the largest parties, he does not call to Salafiyyah, but he is moderate in terms of being satisfied with or silent about those who call to Salafiyyah, this is the most moderate of them, yes.
Al-Halabi : I say this is a blessing there that one is silent about the da'wah.
The mujahid: And Jamil al-Rahman was with him and separated from him; because he found that he could not establish the schools and so on, because this requires money and funds, and the money must come from abroad, and these matters were hindering him in his da'wah, so he separated from him.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
The mujahid: And he statedThe Shaykh : Hakim Yar stated thatThe Shaykh : Jamil al-Rahman is a learned man.

The Shaykh : Welcome.
The mujahid: And we learned from him and benefited from him in tafsir (exegesis) and so on, so this is what...

The Shaykh : This is what Hakim Yar states.
The mujahid: Yes.

The Shaykh : Let's go.
The Mujahid: All praise is due to Allah; we praise Him, seek His help, and seek His forgiveness, and we seek refuge in Allah from the evils of our own souls and the badness of our deeds. Whoever Allah guides is not to be led astray, and whoever He leaves to stray has no guide. And I bear witness that there is no deity but Allah alone, with no partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and His Messenger. As for what follows:
Some Salafi callers have deemed it necessary to organize in order to advance the benefit of the Muslim community. However, this organization forced them into competition with other traditional groups, which ultimately led them to promote people who are not qualified, either educationally or academically, to the rank of callers, and to prioritize quantity over quality. They excuse all of this by saying that the scope of the call has expanded beyond them and that they were compelled to do so out of necessity. Do you advise these people to suspend their activities until their qualifications, particularly their educational qualifications, are complete? Or do you advise them to scale back this activity to the extent of their capacity and ability?

The Shaykh : I say, and may Allah be our helper: We have spoken about questions like this many times, repeatedly. Now, the question is clear and does not require us to lengthen the answer because of its clarity. So we say: We advise our Salafi brothers in all lands of Islam that they must work within the limits of their capacity and abilities, and that they should not burden themselves or others beyond their capacity. This is because the outcome of such overburdening is a bad result that they do not expect to fall into, or into something like it. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said in an authentic hadith, on the occasion of his advice to some of his Companions regarding moderation in the worship they were inclined toward, such as standing in prayer, praying, and fasting. He (peace be upon him) said on this occasion: Therefore, we advise these Salafi brothers, and those who call themselves, or who are called by others, callers, we say to them: Be patient and do not rush the matter. For among the sayings transmitted from some of them is: "Whoever hastens a thing before its time is tried with its deprivation." The lesson is evident in many Islamic groups, and among the earliest in the Islamic arena are those who, when they occupied themselves with the call they adopted, called to it the general Muslim population. It is almost a full century since they began, and they are still where they were in terms of knowledge and in terms of education. In the military expression used in some countries, "stay in your place." There is movement and there is activity, but there is no progress. So this movement and this activity have resulted in loss for them. Because when a person engages in a matter, even if that matter is purely worldly, but the least that can be said about it is that it is permissible, he must review his calculation and his consideration of his gain or his loss. If he spends a long time striving after that worldly matter and does not achieve it at all in reality, he must change his plan. Because his failure to achieve his desire and his objective over all that time is proof that the step or the path he was following to reach his desired goal does not lead to his wish and his objective. And as was said long ago on such an occasion:
"Sa'd led them in, and Sa'd was wrapped up. This is not, O Sa'd, how camels are led in."
Therefore, for decades we have been emphasizing to our Muslim brothers that the call (da'wah) must be built on two foundations and two great pillars, without which there is no way to uplift the Muslims, namely purification and education. We repeat this over and over again. Our answer to this question is that we advise these Salafi brothers who have rushed into what they were not created for—rushing to call people without knowledge, except for a few individuals among them, and the discussion is not about them—but rather that the call be entrusted to and attributed to young people in this call who have no knowledge, yet they are tasked with calling to a call. What is this call? Our brothers must observe that our call differs entirely from the calls of other groups. Our call is a scientific and reformative call. The call of the others may sometimes be educational, even if only in words, but their efforts have focused on gathering and assembling people around an easy matter. A group of them gathers people around Islam, around the religion of Islam, but what is this Islam? If you ask most of those called, or most of the individuals gathered on the basis of that call, "What is your call?" they may say, "Our call is the Book and the Sunnah." This call, or these two names—the Book and the Sunnah—has in fact become one of the virtues of the Salafi call today. Because I, as you see, have reached an advanced age, and thirty years ago or close to that, we did not hear the call of the Book and the Sunnah. We did not hear a preacher among the preachers mention the Book and the Sunnah. All they called people to was Islam. And Islam, as you know, its followers are various sects from many long centuries. So if Islam is mentioned broadly, it includes all these people, with their flaws and their virtues, despite their great differences and divisions. But when we say Islam according to the Book and the Sunnah on the methodology of the righteous Salaf, then this wide circle, which includes all the misguided sects that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) mentioned in the well-known hadith to the end of the hadith, narrows and is confined to the saved sect, as he (peace and blessings be upon him) said, which is: . So when the other callers call Muslims in general, they are calling them to a general Islam. What is the reality of this Islam? Each one of them answers you with a traditional answer, meaning acting according to the religion, the Book and the Sunnah. But what is the Book and what is the Sunnah? And what is the way to understand it? This is a matter that all Islamic callers do not dwell on, except the Salafis. They are the ones who call people to the Book and the Sunnah on the methodology of the righteous Salaf. I recall an anecdote on this occasion regarding the saying of the scholars: "One who lacks a thing cannot give it." So when you want to call to Islam, it is very, very self-evident that you must be knowledgeable, aware, and acting upon what you are calling to. Otherwise, you are like that Kurd who was claimed to have met a man from the Jews on his way, drew his dagger on him, and said in his broken Arabic: "So-and-so, convert to Islam or I will kill you." He said: "What should I say?" He said: "By Allah, I do not know." (The brothers laugh). So we should call to an Islam that we know what it is. If the call of the Islamic callers is to an undefined Islam, what is the benefit of this call? And so I gave you an example earlier of some Islamic parties who shout at the top of their voices, and they had a state and power in some of their past days, but they did not benefit from anything. Because if you ask their leader—let alone their follower—about a belief from the beliefs of the Salaf based on the Book and the Sunnah, either he answers you with a Jahmi or Mu'tazili answer, or he answers with "I do not know." So he does not know, and he does not know the belief that the Muslim must know first of all, and then believe in it second. So what is the state of callers like this caller? And so the anecdote I told you earlier about that Kurd and the Jew is the best example of many of these callers who call the Muslim masses to Islam, but it is an undefined Islam. Therefore, it was said in the old wisdom: "Whoever sees the lesson in others, let him take heed." The Salafi brothers who have joined or established this good and blessed call as a group have not been in existence for less than a quarter of a century, and they have felt the effects of their call in the Islamic world. It is not permissible for them at all to regress, to go backward, and to fall into what others from the other parties have fallen into, with a great difference. The other parties did not know or taste the sweetness and pleasure of the Salafi call, nor its importance. Therefore, they live in confusion, not knowing the belief that Allah (may He have mercy on you) revealed to the heart of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and explained to all people. They do not know, even in these last days. But the Salafis have tasted the sweetness of this call and known its worth and value. So it is never permissible for them to forget it, or to occupy the other people whom they were calling to understand it and believe in it, with other matters that fall under the category of politics, whether it is general or restricted. Because I do not think a Muslim would affirm the legitimacy of politics in its general sense. So it must be restricted to Shari'ah politics. Shari'ah politics is certainly desirable in the Shari'ah, because it is not possible to manage the Muslim state except on the basis of Shari'ah politics. But this politics is not the concern of individuals, nor is it the concern of callers who must make the Muslims in general understand. And when I say "in general" as a call, the gathering and assembly on this call is not hidden from any sane Muslim that it is impossible for callers, or some callers, to gather all Muslims, with their different inclinations, schools of thought, and even their stings and parties, into what? A single block standing on the Book and the Sunnah and the methodology of the righteous Salaf... due to the saying of the Lord of the Worlds: , and the hadith of the sects that I referred to earlier. But at least those who want to follow the path of Allah and the path of His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), about whom our Lord (Mighty and Majestic) narrated in the Qur'an that He commanded him to say: , these must gather on this basis, and it must be the saved sect. When this group gathers on this correct understanding of the correct Islam and educates correctly as a block and a group, then the believers will rejoice in the victory of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He).
As for departing from this call and occupying the majority of Muslims with something else, that is a serious deviation. The consequence of this deviation will be that the Salafi group, may Allah forbid it, will be afflicted with what other groups and parties have been afflicted with. They will remain for a long, very long time calling and calling and working, but on the basis I mentioned earlier: "stay in your place and wait." And it is better for the Salafi callers to guide one individual, let alone a group of individuals whom they call to the Book and the Sunnah and raise them with a proper upbringing on this call, than to gather and mass together thousands, or even millions, of people who have not understood Islam and have not believed in the Islam that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) revealed to the heart of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and consequently have not raised them on the basis of this correct understanding. Therefore, we advise our brothers to retreat—and peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy and blessings—from their expansion in their call and from the excuse mentioned in the question. In reality, that excuse is, as they say, "an excuse worse than a sin." So, , and the exaggeration in the call without the restriction mentioned earlier, as I also mentioned in the details of my previous speech, is that the consequence of this exaggeration is collapse. So we must continue to call all people to understand the Book and the Sunnah correctly, starting with the creed, which is the foundation of salvation on the Day of Resurrection, then with what is obligatory after that, which is knowing the individual obligations, then the collective obligations, which, if some people perform them, drop off the rest. This leads me to point out something of the exaggeration that has occurred among Muslims today, even among some callers. In my opinion, the words "the call" and "callers" are an innovation of the present age. And I think you will not hear this from anyone but me, but it is the truth, and the truth . The call and callers today have become as if it is an individual obligation on every Muslim, even if he knows nothing of Islam. You know the example today: a very large Islamic mass goes out to the call, claiming so, and they call this going out "going in the path of Allah." Most of those who go out, as they say, in the path of Allah, as they say in some Arab countries, "cannot distinguish between five and a blur, or a thousand and a smear." What do these people do? These are callers. Callers to what? To Islam. O people, fear Allah! One who lacks a thing cannot give it. Sit in your lands, form circles, gather in your mosques, recite the Book of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He), study it among yourselves, and gain understanding of the Book and the Sunnah, so that you are on clarity and you are as He said (peace and blessings be upon him): . We know that many of these people, and the heads of these people, commit reprehensible acts, either out of ignorance or out of neglect, either ignorance of Islam or from the perspective of the disbelieving principle that has no basis in Islam, and yet some Islamic callers affiliate with it and act upon it, which is "the end justifies the means." It has reached us that a group of these callers arrived at a village and found its people circumambulating the grave of a wali they claimed to be a wali, the head of the group. These people circumambulated the grave with the people. Why? He said, to win their hearts. Does Islam command this? Islam tells us since fifteen centuries ago: and it does not say, "do the work of the ignorant." But it shows the extent of the Prophet's (peace and blessings be upon him) concern in opposing the manifestations of shirk (associating partners with Allah), even if they are verbal and not practical, such as circumambulating the graves of the awliya (close friends of Allah) and the righteous, even by the word that may come from some of them by mistake without bad intention. So you all know the hadith narrated by al-Tirmidhi and others from Abu Waqid al-Laythi that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was on a journey. When his companions passed by a large tree of the sidr tree while he was with them, some of his companions (peace be upon him) said: "Make for us a Dhat Anwat as they have a Dhat Anwat." This tree was one on which the polytheists hung their weapons. So some of them said: "Make for us a Dhat Anwat as they have a Dhat Anwat." Meaning, a place where weapons are hung. So he (peace be upon him) said: Look at the Prophet's (peace and blessings be upon him) concern in cutting off the circle of shirk, even for a word that came from the speaker without intending a meaning of shirk, but because this word resembled the word of the old polytheists, from the Jews , merely for this verbal resemblance, he said: to the end of the hadith. So how can a Muslim who knows Islam, which is based on the Book and the Sunnah, permit himself to do the work of the polytheists and circumambulate with the misguided people? Why? He said, to win them over and gain their hearts.