What is the ruling on calling riba bank interest?
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The Shaykh : No, this is riba itself. And after that, do not forget riba today—wherever you go—even in the shaykhs' lessons, you do not hear the word riba; you only hear the word "interest." If they speak, they say "forbidden interest." I say, "forbidden interest"? What merchant sells and buys except to profit?
The questioner : Of course.
The Shaykh : All right, is interest forbidden? No, but here they use the word "interest" for riba. Why are they calling riba "interest"? That is the interest-based environment. Satan inspired them to say, "Do not use the word riba, because it is a frightening word, and in their expression, it is a backward, religiously bigoted word that does not suit the times. Do not come and say, 'This is forbidden, this is riba.' No, say: 'This is interest.' So the bank takes interest; the bank takes riba. When the shaykhs present the issue, they fail to warn the people: do not use the word "interest" in place of riba, for two reasons. The first reason is that Allah named it riba; He did not name it interest.
The second reason is that interest is not forbidden in Islam; therefore, they used this word to mislead people into thinking it is not forbidden, that it is just interest. Where does the bank get its living from? The president and the employees, and so on? From the interest. This is forbidden with the strongest prohibition, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said:, ; so eating riba is among the major sins. And Allah (Mighty and Majestic) cursed the Jews for eating riba and eating the forbidden usury. There is no god but Allah. There is no god but Allah.
The questioner : Our Shaykh—for example, a merchant who has a commercial shop, and there is a possibility that his business will collapse. If he does not take expenses—for example, he takes a loan from someone, or goes to any place, this shop will collapse and be liquidated on the street. He needs money, for example, such and such. We say that banks take riba. If he is compelled and takes from a bank, what is its ruling in Islam? Is there no fatwa for it?
The Shaykh : From my side, there is no fatwa for you; because you say, "I was compelled." We say there is no dire necessity for committing the forbidden. There is no god but Allah. The Messenger (may Allah pray upon him and grant him peace) said: يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ! إِنَّ اللَّهَ طَيِّبٌ لَا يَقْبَلُ إِلَّا طَيِّبًا، وَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَمَرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ بِمَا أَمَرَ بِهِ الْمُرْسَلِينَ؛ فَقَالَ: يَا أَيُّهَا الرُّسُلُ كُلُوا مِنْ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَاعْمَلُوا صَالِحًا ؛ ثُمَّ ذَكَرَ رَسُولُ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الرَّجُلَ يُطِيلُ السَّفَرَ أَشْعَثَ أَغَبَرَ؛ يَقُولُ: يَا رَبِّ! يَا رَبِّ -يعني: يدعو- مَأْكَلُهُ حَرَام، وَمَشْرَبُهُ حَرَامٍ، وَمَلْبَسُهُ حَرَام، وَغُذِّيَ بالحَرَامٍ؛ فَأَنَّى يُسْتَجَابُ لِذَاكَ O people! Indeed, Allah is Pure and does not accept except that which is pure. And indeed, Allah commanded the believers with what He commanded the messengers; He said: O messengers! Eat from the good things and do righteous deeds. Then the Messenger of Allah (may Allah pray upon him and grant him peace) mentioned the man who lengthens his journey, disheveled and dusty; he says: O my Lord! O my Lord—meaning: he supplicates—his food is forbidden, and his drink is forbidden, and his clothing is forbidden, and he is nourished with the forbidden; so how will he be answered?. And he (peace be upon him) said in some other hadiths:. People today have become accustomed to earning money by any means, without asking if it is forbidden or lawful; the important thing is to get it! For them, the end justifies the means. And our Messenger (may Allah pray upon him and grant him peace) informed us of this reality that we touch with our hands today; when he said: . So people have no way to solve their economic problems except by the way of the disbelieving Europeans: "the bank." Whereas if there were truly Muslims, and the bond of faith truly connected some of them to others, there would be no problem. A Muslim would not be compelled to say, "Out of necessity," so that his shop does not collapse, needing to borrow from the bank. And then, let us hope! The result of his borrowing is that he recovers. In many cases: [Qaf 50:30]. All he has is what was taken by riba, and the riba accumulates upon him, and consequently his shop collapses completely. Whereas the Islamic way is very simple; it is what is called by the scholars: mudarabah (a profit-sharing partnership). A person has an activity, he has work, he can trade, but he does not have liquidity. He can agree with a rich man who has liquidity but does not have the ability to work for one reason or another. He takes from him a mudarabah capital, not by riba as some people do. He takes from him, for example, a quantity and tells him, "On the basis that every month you give me a fixed amount such and such." This is riba itself.
But take, so-and-so! This is one thousand dinars, this is five thousand dinars. Go and work in your business, you are the trader, the one who is working, which is your job. Then, what you profit is shared half, third, or fourth, according to what they agree upon. If there is a loss, the owner of the capital loses his capital, and the mudarib (partner) loses his effort and work. This is a lawful and very reasonable transaction. But people first no longer trust each other; and therefore they resort to the forbidden way: the bank, and the bank binds them with shackles.
Abu Layla : A bloodsucker.
The Shaykh : Yes! A bloodsucker. How many people bought houses and were forced to sell them at the lowest prices; through what they call banks, what? Housing.
Abu Layla : Urban trapping.
The Shaykh : Getting trapped.
Abu Layla : Our Shaykh, by the grace of Allah upon us; and then by your grace upon us as well.
The Shaykh : Excuse me.
Abu Layla : When I asked you about six years ago or more, about my dealings with merchants, and I do not hide from you that my trade is like the rest of the existing merchants.
The Shaykh : Correct, all merchants are like this.
Abu Layla : I was afflicted—O our Shaykh!—with debts, to the point that I did not take loans from the banks, which are the sinners. My account was a current account; I was not entangled with them. But the bank's way—O our Shaykh!—and the dealings of merchants like me with the banks, gave us a long credit to take from these merchants on credit, and this is recorded in the account. So we were entangled—O our Shaykh!—in debts, for example, twenty, twenty-five thousand dinars. Sometimes we had goods—O our Shaykh!—that did not have this value.
The Shaykh : Glory be to Allah!
Abu Layla : Yes, and by the grace of Allah upon us, and your guidance—O our Shaykh!—and after I stopped dealing with the banks and withdrew the financial funds existing in the banks, I followed the path that you had me look at; which is maintaining the trust. And this has been—O Shaykh!—for six years and more, and I have been dealing in it. After I had more than twenty thousand dinars in debts upon me; now—by the grace of Allah—perhaps in this summer, I will be able to buy...
The Shaykh : From your capital
Abu Layla : Directly, instead of being in debt to the merchants. Yes—O our Shaykh!—for a while, I calculate my accounts, and by the grace of Allah, I see, it is unbelievable, I have no debts upon me, except for one thousand dinars, after I had twenty thousand dinars upon me.
The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.
Abu Layla : Praise be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, by Allah, a great blessing...
Sound of a phone ringing
The questioner : Peace be upon you
The Shaykh : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah.
The hadith that you are referring to...
Abu Layla : He repeats his question, O our Shaykh!
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : Of course.
The Shaykh : All right, is interest forbidden? No, but here they use the word "interest" for riba. Why are they calling riba "interest"? That is the interest-based environment. Satan inspired them to say, "Do not use the word riba, because it is a frightening word, and in their expression, it is a backward, religiously bigoted word that does not suit the times. Do not come and say, 'This is forbidden, this is riba.' No, say: 'This is interest.' So the bank takes interest; the bank takes riba. When the shaykhs present the issue, they fail to warn the people: do not use the word "interest" in place of riba, for two reasons. The first reason is that Allah named it riba; He did not name it interest.
The second reason is that interest is not forbidden in Islam; therefore, they used this word to mislead people into thinking it is not forbidden, that it is just interest. Where does the bank get its living from? The president and the employees, and so on? From the interest. This is forbidden with the strongest prohibition, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
A dirham of riba that a man eats is more severe with Allah than thirty-three acts of unlawful sexual intercourse.
دِرْهَمُ رِبَا يَأْكُلُهُ الرَّجُلُ أَشَدُّ عِنْدَ اللهِ مِنْ سِتٍّ وَثَلاثِينَ زَنْيَةًA dirham of riba that a man eats is more severe with Allah than thirty-three acts of unlawful sexual intercourse.
دِرْهَمُ رِبَا يَأْكُلُهُ الرَّجُلُ أَشَدُّ عِنْدَ اللهِ مِنْ سِتٍّ وَثَلاثِينَ زَنْيَةًThe questioner : Our Shaykh—for example, a merchant who has a commercial shop, and there is a possibility that his business will collapse. If he does not take expenses—for example, he takes a loan from someone, or goes to any place, this shop will collapse and be liquidated on the street. He needs money, for example, such and such. We say that banks take riba. If he is compelled and takes from a bank, what is its ruling in Islam? Is there no fatwa for it?
The Shaykh : From my side, there is no fatwa for you; because you say, "I was compelled." We say there is no dire necessity for committing the forbidden. There is no god but Allah. The Messenger (may Allah pray upon him and grant him peace) said: يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ! إِنَّ اللَّهَ طَيِّبٌ لَا يَقْبَلُ إِلَّا طَيِّبًا، وَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَمَرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ بِمَا أَمَرَ بِهِ الْمُرْسَلِينَ؛ فَقَالَ: يَا أَيُّهَا الرُّسُلُ كُلُوا مِنْ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَاعْمَلُوا صَالِحًا ؛ ثُمَّ ذَكَرَ رَسُولُ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الرَّجُلَ يُطِيلُ السَّفَرَ أَشْعَثَ أَغَبَرَ؛ يَقُولُ: يَا رَبِّ! يَا رَبِّ -يعني: يدعو- مَأْكَلُهُ حَرَام، وَمَشْرَبُهُ حَرَامٍ، وَمَلْبَسُهُ حَرَام، وَغُذِّيَ بالحَرَامٍ؛ فَأَنَّى يُسْتَجَابُ لِذَاكَ O people! Indeed, Allah is Pure and does not accept except that which is pure. And indeed, Allah commanded the believers with what He commanded the messengers; He said: O messengers! Eat from the good things and do righteous deeds. Then the Messenger of Allah (may Allah pray upon him and grant him peace) mentioned the man who lengthens his journey, disheveled and dusty; he says: O my Lord! O my Lord—meaning: he supplicates—his food is forbidden, and his drink is forbidden, and his clothing is forbidden, and he is nourished with the forbidden; so how will he be answered?. And he (peace be upon him) said in some other hadiths:
Indeed, a soul does not die until it has completed its provision and its term, so be generous in your seeking, for what is with Allah is not attained through that which is forbidden.
إِنَّ نَفْسًا لَنْ تَمُوتَ حَتَّى تَسْتَكْمِلَ رِزْقَهَا وَأَجَلَهَا فَأجْمِلُوا فِي الطَّلَبِ فَإنَّ مَا عِنْدَ اللهِ لاَ يُنَالُ بِالحَرَامِA time will come upon my Ummah (the Muslim community) in which a person will not care whether he ate from what is lawful or from what is forbidden.
يَأْتِي زَمَانٌ عَلَى أُمَّتِي لاَ يُبَالِي الْمَرْءُ أَمِنْ حَلاَلٍ أَكَلَ أَمْ مِنْ حَرَامٍOn the Day We will say to Hell, "Have you been filled?" and it will say, "Are there some more,"
يَوْمَ نَقُولُ لِجَهَنَّمَ هَلِ امْتَلَأْتِ وَتَقُولُ هَلْ مِن مَّزِيدٍBut take, so-and-so! This is one thousand dinars, this is five thousand dinars. Go and work in your business, you are the trader, the one who is working, which is your job. Then, what you profit is shared half, third, or fourth, according to what they agree upon. If there is a loss, the owner of the capital loses his capital, and the mudarib (partner) loses his effort and work. This is a lawful and very reasonable transaction. But people first no longer trust each other; and therefore they resort to the forbidden way: the bank, and the bank binds them with shackles.
Abu Layla : A bloodsucker.
The Shaykh : Yes! A bloodsucker. How many people bought houses and were forced to sell them at the lowest prices; through what they call banks, what? Housing.
Abu Layla : Urban trapping.
The Shaykh : Getting trapped.
Abu Layla : Our Shaykh, by the grace of Allah upon us; and then by your grace upon us as well.
The Shaykh : Excuse me.
Abu Layla : When I asked you about six years ago or more, about my dealings with merchants, and I do not hide from you that my trade is like the rest of the existing merchants.
The Shaykh : Correct, all merchants are like this.
Abu Layla : I was afflicted—O our Shaykh!—with debts, to the point that I did not take loans from the banks, which are the sinners. My account was a current account; I was not entangled with them. But the bank's way—O our Shaykh!—and the dealings of merchants like me with the banks, gave us a long credit to take from these merchants on credit, and this is recorded in the account. So we were entangled—O our Shaykh!—in debts, for example, twenty, twenty-five thousand dinars. Sometimes we had goods—O our Shaykh!—that did not have this value.
The Shaykh : Glory be to Allah!
Abu Layla : Yes, and by the grace of Allah upon us, and your guidance—O our Shaykh!—and after I stopped dealing with the banks and withdrew the financial funds existing in the banks, I followed the path that you had me look at; which is maintaining the trust. And this has been—O Shaykh!—for six years and more, and I have been dealing in it. After I had more than twenty thousand dinars in debts upon me; now—by the grace of Allah—perhaps in this summer, I will be able to buy...
The Shaykh : From your capital
Abu Layla : Directly, instead of being in debt to the merchants. Yes—O our Shaykh!—for a while, I calculate my accounts, and by the grace of Allah, I see, it is unbelievable, I have no debts upon me, except for one thousand dinars, after I had twenty thousand dinars upon me.
The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.
Abu Layla : Praise be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, by Allah, a great blessing...
Sound of a phone ringing
The questioner : Peace be upon you
The Shaykh : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah.
The hadith that you are referring to...
Abu Layla : He repeats his question, O our Shaykh!
The Shaykh : Yes?
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.