He was asked about a man from Al-Azhar who took charge of the Imamate of a center in (Toledo, Ohio), whose name is 'Abd al-Mun'im Khatib, and who contradicts the Shari'ah frequently.

The questioner : Okay, can I ask another question?

The Shaykh : Please go ahead.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good. We are from the city of Toledo, Ohio.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah.

The questioner : In America generally, many people of misguidance, the misguided and the misguiders, are widespread.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : Perhaps you have heard of As'ad Khalifa, who claimed prophethood?

The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.

The questioner : So Allah sent someone to slaughter him, meaning he slaughtered the sheep.

The Shaykh : Yes, we know, we heard that.

The questioner : But now in Toledo, we suffered and we still suffer from a man named 'Abd al-Mun'im Khatib. He is Egyptian, from Egypt, appointed by Al-Azhar in Egypt to be the Imam of this Islamic center. He has opinions that I think, I mean, I am consulting you about them. I think he is in great danger. We were always in conflicts and discussions with him, and he never listens to anyone, meaning

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : The greatest Pharaoh said that your Lord is the Most High, because he does not explicitly say their Lord is the Most High, but rather he forces all people to stay away from these. We have a mosque named the Mosque of Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas, which is specific to the students and specific to the people of the Sunnah and the community, so that we can be more detailed.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : As for that Islamic center, the community runs it, and I do not know if you have heard about the community in America, that they are among the worst... meaning they do not want their daughter to wear the hijab or their wife to wear the hijab.

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : A tavern, and he comes to the mosque on Sunday at eleven thirty, which is the time of the Christians' prayer on Sunday from nine thirty to eleven thirty. This is the time of the Christians' gathering or assembly in their churches, and after eleven thirty they begin their distorted prayers.

The Shaykh: Yes

The questioner : So this Islamic center imitates them in this matter. The Friday prayer with him is not an obligation or not obligatory for the Muslims; rather, they must do their utmost to attend the Sunday lesson.

The Shaykh : Who says this?

The questioner : The Islamic center in the city of Greater Toledo.

The Shaykh : Who is responsible for it?

The questioner : The community, as I mentioned to you, the community, meaning a group.

The Shaykh : My brother, the community is a collective, and there must be a person who is the head and responsible.

The questioner : That person is 'Abd al-Mun'im Khatib.

The Shaykh : That is the same person.

The questioner : Yes, he has a Master's degree in Psychology at the University of Toronto, Canada, the country of Canada, meaning.

The Shaykh : Okay, Professor, you say that this man was sent by Al-Azhar.

The questioner : Yes, from Al-Azhar.

The Shaykh : Why do you not write to Al-Azhar and inform them of what he is doing, so that the truth is revealed? Is he hiding behind Al-Azhar, or is this Al-Azhar's creed and he represents them? Why do you not contact the officials at Al-Azhar?

The questioner : I know best, I think they sent him, and as you say, there is absolutely no contact between him and them.

The Shaykh : is it

The questioner : The man is an innovator, and he does not mean to take from the religion. He says about Sahih al-Bukhari, "The American, I do not read this," meaning we must say it, meaning I do not read this garbage.

The Shaykh : I seek refuge in Allah

The questioner : Sahih al-Bukhari, and that this Bukhari is a madman. How can a person memorize a hundred hadiths in the same pause?

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : He does not allow us to speak or discuss at all, and he does not allow any person to discuss with this man while he is speaking and delivering the sermon. The disaster is not that we students are here, and if the ones in charge of this mosque are from the Muslim Brotherhood, rather from the fanatics of the Muslim Brotherhood, we ask Allah to guide them.

The Shaykh : Amen.

The questioner : But that they try to enter and participate in the activities of this Islamic center. We all call it, we call it the Mosque of Harm, because it is established on corruption and established, by Allah, O Shaykh, in the prayer, for about a year or eight months, the prayer was performed with men and women mixed.

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : Meaning there was no barrier. And when we spoke with him and presented the proof against him, the most he did was place tables that did not exceed the height of an adult's knee between the men's prayer area and the women's prayer area, and the men see the women and the women see the men, meaning there is no so-called barrier or curtain. Also, the women pray beside the men and not behind the men.

The Shaykh: Also

The questioner : Contrary to the Sunnah.

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : This is a disaster. We remained silent about all this. We remained silent for reasons, the most important and first of which is that there is nothing, there is nothing written. These opinions in his words and his fatwa with its calamities, there is nothing written, until the time came when some of the Muslim students andThe student : the Muslim women from this center celebrated the graduates of the university, the university with bachelor's, master's, and doctorate degrees, that they are Muslims. And this was an activity of the Muslim Brotherhood, that they wanted to enter this center and try to correct much of what this man, the man 'Abd al-Mun'im Khatib, had corrupted.

The Shaykh : Okay, Professor, I return and suggest that you must contact Al-Azhar and explain to them the misguidance of this man and his spreading of corruption there in America, and the corruption of religion and creed. And that they do not limit themselves to disavowing him, but they must send letters that you will publish there. If we disavow this man and judge him, as they see, as an open sinner or a disbeliever, this is a means that must be adopted. Because he really, it seems, the citizens there know that he is from Al-Azhar and that originally he was sent from Al-Azhar, so he relies on and backs himself with Al-Azhar. So when Al-Azhar announces its disavowal of him and its declaration of his disbelief or misguidance, this is sufficient to be a victory for you over him.

The questioner : Yes, we want to contact Al-Azhar and contact you, and a young man will come to you, if Allah wills. I will tell you his name later. He will come to you and take a fatwa from you. We are traveling to Saudi Arabia and we will collect a fatwa from all the known scholars, if Allah wills. And this means, the main problem that raised this issue is that in an American newspaper, a newspaper in the city, they call it Toledo Blade, the newspaper, the disbelieving newspaper, spoke with this man who is called the Imam of the Islamic center.

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : They recorded an interview with him, and he said, or the greatest thing he said, the greatest is that he said this. I translated it myself.

The Shaykh : is it

The questioner : From English to Arabic. He said word for word, "Some people say Islam is the hijab, so I say the hijab is a Saudi tradition. I distinguish between Islam and traditions." He said the word "zeel zeel" in English, meaning the hijab. The hijab means, in more than one dictionary and more than one encyclopedia that we checked, we found its meaning to be the hijab. And the journalist who conducted the interview with him clarified it. Her words said, "And Khatib says, although he is called by his family name and not by his first name."

The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.

The questioner : For example, he says, "The hijab that covers many Muslim women in Saudi Arabia, in Libya, in Iraq, and in the countries of the Middle East." He says here, quoting his exact words, "As I mentioned to you, it is a Saudi custom, and I distinguish between religion and Islam..." It is not obligatory for women to cover their heads if they wish to enter the Islamic Center, unless they wish to enter the prayer hall. In that case, they should put on something, even something simple, on their head to cover it, because this is a sacred place. Much of his speech is not worth mentioning because it is not as important as this very serious statement. I personally called him and said, with all politeness and calm, "Shaykh, I wanted to review your statement. Did you actually say what was mentioned in the newspaper?" He started shouting and said, "Who are you? I came from Canada, it has been an hour and a half, and I don't know what you are talking about. You know newspapers lie." So I said, "Shaykh, they quoted your words verbatim. So I am asking you exactly: did you say this verbatim or not?" He shouted and refused. I said, "Did you say this text verbatim or not?" He said, "Let me check the newspaper first and I will get back to you." Since you said to me, "Even if your words are true, you mean the word *khimar* and not *hijab*," the meaning of your words is that you denied an authentic principle in Islam. Who said that the *khimar* is not part of the religion? There is a strong disagreement among scholars on this; some say it is obligatory, and some say it is a confirmed *sunnah* or recommended. How can you deny this? He said, "You are going to say the Messenger is not the Messenger. You are going to say the Messenger is not the Messenger. Look at the way you are proceeding. You have no connection to anyone. And look at the way I am proceeding; I proceed in my way and have no connection to anyone, and everyone walks as they wish."

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : I mean, how do we spread the religion? Our religion is what Allah said and what the Messenger said.

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar.

The questioner : He wants to spread the religion his own way.

The Shaykh : Professor, I want to draw your attention to something. You mentioned the word *khimar* quoting him, and translated the word *khimar* into that English word. Then it became clear from your words that when you explained that scholars differed, some saying it is obligatory and some saying it is a *sunnah*, it seemed as if you were siding with those who say that the *khimar* covers the face, but is this covering obligatory or a *sunnah*? First, I want you to be well aware that the *khimar* does not mean covering the face, but only covering the head. If a man interprets the *khimar* with an English word that implies covering the face, and then you and others deny it to him, then he made a mistake, and you made a mistake with him in interpreting the *khimar* as meaning covering the face. But it is also clear from your words that the man does not oblige a woman to cover her head when she leaves her house. This is misguidance from him, without a doubt. But I am circling around the Arabic word *khimar*, which does not mean covering the face in any way, but only means covering the head.

The questioner : He meant the *niqab*, the face covering.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you. Therefore, he must first correct his linguistic understanding that the *khimar* does not mean covering the face. So when he denies the *khimar* to the Saudis, he is also denying the head covering in the process. But he understands the *khimar*, as many Saudi shaykhs understand it, to also cover the face. This, my brother, may Allah reward you, has no basis in language or in the Shari'ah. The greatest and quickest proof I can give you in this narrow time, because the discussion between you and me has been long and people are waiting for their turn to ask, is the closest and strongest proof: remember with me the saying of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him): No scholar of knowledge, absolutely, understands that a woman must cover her head and her face when she stands to pray, because the *khimar* covers both of them completely. That is not the case. The *khimar* in language is a head covering, and this covering is shared by men and women. Therefore, it was reported from Umm Salama and others that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) used to wipe over the *khimar*. So the Messenger used to place the *khimar* on his head, and that does not mean in any way that he was covering his face. Similarly, when women wear the *khimar*, it means covering the head, which is the intended meaning in His saying: He did not say "over their faces," but rather "over their bosoms." The bosom is the opening of the shirt that exposes the chest if there is no *khimar*. Therefore, I hope you will be alert, first for the sake of the Shari'ah and second for the sake of language, that the *khimar* does not mean covering the face in any way. And when this ignorant, indeed sinful, person knows that the *khimar* does not mean covering the face, and that a woman when she goes out to the street should go out with two things: wearing the *khimar* and wearing the *jilbab* over the *khimar*, and that this does not mean covering the face at all. And although we say, as we explained in the book, both in the past and recently, "The Hijab of the Muslim Woman," which we named in the new edition "The Jilbab of the Muslim Woman," and although we established in the book, both in the past and recently, that it is better for the woman to cover her face, either with the *niqab* or with a scarf, and the *niqab* and the scarf have absolutely no connection to the *khimar*. This is what I wanted to remind you of, and the reminder benefits the believers. And in conclusion, I say, as you told me just now, that you will send some young men to Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, so you must send to al-Azhar and take from them what helps you to subdue this misguided person. And perhaps you will do so.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And I entrust you to Allah, and peace be upon you and the mercy of Allah.
Abu Layla : May Allah reward you, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah keep you safe.