The story of Shaykh Al-Albani with the Azhar Shaykh from the al-Khatibiyah al-Sabikah group of the al-Jami'ah al-Shar'iyyah

The Shaykh : In one of the seasons of Hajj, I was sitting with some Egyptian Sunni youth on a night in Mina, discussing matters related to creed, when an Azhar Shaykh from the al-Khatibiyah al-Sabikah group passed by us. Have you heard of them?
The student : ... The Shaykh al-Sabikah?

The Shaykh : Yes, the ones whose name is the al-Jami'ah al-Shar'iyyah; they belong to an organization called the al-Jami'ah al-Shar'iyyah. It is a market, and you know that Mina is an open area where pilgrims pass between the tents and so on. He listened for a little while and found in it scholarly research, so he sat down. He understood from my speech what he suspected, as is the case with many, unfortunately, that I am a Wahhabi. I heard this word a long time ago. Well, what is your information about the Wahhabis?
The student : It is named after Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab in Makkah, and the name originated from there, as it came in the book... He spoke about the Wahhabis, and they also attribute to it the sons of the Shaykh, as... from the scholars until it reaches Shaykh Ibn Baz, who says that it is the same as the Salafi movement, the movement of Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, or the Salafi movement. This is what I know.

The Shaykh : Well, the point is that when he heard my speech, he suspected that I was a Wahhabi in his opinion. He said: "But you, O Shaykh, say in tajsim (ascribing a body to Allah) and liken the Lord of the Worlds to the created things, and place Him in a location." I said, "How is that?" He said, "You say that Allah is on the Throne." I said, "Glory be to Allah, is this our statement or the statement of the Lord of the Throne? a verse." He said, "No, this is the word of Allah, but you interpret it to mean that He is above the Throne by His essence." I said, "Yes, what is wrong with that statement?" He said, "No, it is not permissible to say that Allah is above the Throne." I said, "Well, you accuse us of ascribing a body to the Lord of the Worlds and placing Him in a location, whereas we purify Him from every location. Here is the explanation, but by way of question and answer. I asked him, 'Is location existent or non-existent?' He said, 'No, location is existent, not non-existent.' Well, I said to him, 'Are we now in the land of Mina in a location?' He said, 'Of course.' We said to him, 'What is above us?' He said, 'The first heaven, the lowest heaven.' I said, 'A location?' He said, 'Yes.' And so, briefly, we reached the seventh heaven. The seventh heaven is a location, he said, 'Yes.' We said, 'And what is above the seventh heaven?' He said, 'The Throne.' I said to him, 'A location?' He said, 'Yes.' I said to him, 'What is above the Throne?' He surprised me with a fabrication and said, 'The angels, the Kerubiyun, or perhaps he did not say angels, he said, 'The Kerubiyun.' I said, ignoring it, 'What are Kerubiyun?' He said, 'Kerubiyun angels.' I said, 'Are the Kerubiyun angels above the Throne?' He said, 'Yes.' I said to him, 'Is there a verse that there are angels above the Throne named Kerubiyun?' He said, 'No.' I said to him, 'Is there a hadith?' He said, 'No.' I said, 'Then where did you get this from?' He said, 'This is what our scholars and shaykhs in the Noble Azhar taught us.' I said, 'Glory be to Allah, do your scholars not say that it is not permissible to take creed from a sound hadith unless it is mutawatir (mass-transmitted)?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'Glory be to Allah, so you establish a creed without a hadith, and if it were a hadith, it would have to be mutawatir, according to what you were taught, that ahad (limited chain) hadiths do not establish creed. In any case, let us proceed. I said to him, regarding the topic, this is an interjected sentence: Above the Kerubiyun angels who are above the Throne, what is there?' He said, 'Nothing.' I said to him, 'Is there no location?' He said, 'No.' I said to him, 'Then how do you accuse us of placing Allah in a location, as long as He is above the Throne, then He is not in a location. Beware of accusing Muslims, or a group of Muslims whom you call Wahhabis, of ascribing a body to their Lord and placing Him in a location. O Shaykh, there is no location, and there are no Kerubiyun. There is only the Throne, and nothing is above the Throne except the Creator of the Throne. This is what I want you to believe, briefly: that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above the Throne by His essence, and there is nothing in the heaven except in the sense of absolute elevation, because linguistically, the heaven is everything that is above you. For example, the clouds are called the heaven of rain, and rain is called the heaven, because it is above us. So when Allah says: it does not mean the created heaven, but rather the absolute elevation that we mentioned to this Sunni Azhar Shaykh. He claimed that there are Kerubiyun angels above the Throne, and then he said there is nothing above them. This 'nothing' is the absolute elevation, which is what we say: Allah is above the Throne. And therefore, some scholars did well when they said:
"And the Lord of the Throne is above the Throne, but *** without the description of settling and connection."
And He is free of need of the worlds; so if we say that Allah istawa (rose above) the Throne, it is interpreted by this verse, the verse of and the hadith of the girl, "Allah is in the heaven," so we do not interpret the hadith of the girl, "Allah is in the heaven," to mean the created heaven is a container for the Creator, may He be exalted from that. He is not like anything, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing. Therefore, I thought, yes.

The questioner : .

The Shaykh What did I say?

The questioner : The All-Knowing.

The Shaykh : The All-Knowing. Do you want to testify against me on the recording? You testify against me. I do not deny; I acknowledge beforehand There is nothing like Him. From here originated that statement by the one who said:
"And the Lord of the Throne is above the Throne, but *** without the description of settling and connection."
Because Allah is free of need of the worlds. This summary, if Allah wills, will be in the minds of everyone, so that we may have gathered in ourselves, in our hearts, the correct creed, and not struck a verse with a verse or a hadith with a verse. Perhaps this extent is sufficient.