Continuation of the story of the Shaykh with the Al-Azhar man that took place in Mina.

The Shaykh : We return to the Al-Azhar man.
I thought he would say, "That's it, the created things have ended; the greatest created thing is the Throne, and it is above all created things." He surprised me with something I had not expected; he said to me, "Above the Throne are the Cherubim." I said to him, "What are these Cherubim?" He said, "They are angels." I said to him, "Angels above the Throne?! Allah says: , but above the Throne!!" He said, "Yes, that is what we found from Al-Azhar al-Sharif." I said to him, "Okay; is there a verse?" He said, "No." We said to him, "Is there a hadith that passed through you that there are Cherubim angels on the Throne?" He said, "No." We said to him, "So where did you get this creed from?" He said, "The Shaykhs taught us this!" I said to him, "By Allah, this is a strange matter. I know that the Shaykhs at Al-Azhar teach in the principles of hadith, the principles of jurisprudence, and the creeds that a sound hadith, if it is a solitary report (ahad), is not taken from for creed; how did you get a creed that is not from a verse and not from a hadith?! Moreover, we are not here now; above the Throne, as you say, are Cherubim angels, and above the angels, what is there?" He stopped.

The questioner : He has nothing from Al-Azhar.

The Shaykh : Ah, we said to him, "So the universe has ended? Did we not agree from the beginning that the universe is what? Limited. Has the universe ended?" He said, "Yes." I said to him, "So there is no created thing above the Throne?" He said, "No." "So there is no place?" He said, "No." I said to him, "So why are you accusing these people that when they say: , they placed Him in a place; since the place ended with the ending of what? The Throne?! So the man was stunned and fell silent. We said to him, "O Shaykh, fear Allah. When these people believe in the verses of Allah and the hadiths of the Messenger of Allah, they believe in them with belief in the unseen; because Allah says: ; so the unseen of the unseen is Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). So when He informed us that He rose above the Throne, it is obligatory to believe without asking how (takyif) and likening (tashbih), and without figurative interpretation (ta'wil) and denial of the divine attributes (ta'til).
The point is, why do they say that they interpret it because they assume that there is a place above the Throne, and Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is free from place and time; so He is not above the Throne, but the truth is that there is no place, .

The questioner : I think this way any problem is resolved.

The Shaykh : Ah, but look at the wonder of wonders, these who fled from interpreting the verse according to its apparent meaning to "He took over" (istawala) fell into what is uglier than what they fled from. Why did they not say: ? They assumed that if they said that, they placed Him in a place, but you placed Him in every place, O people!! Truly you placed Him in every place!!

The questioner : This is also a limitation.

The Shaykh : No, it is the greatest limitation; because place is taken from the universe, did we not agree with the Shaykh? So when we bring to them what you were not pleased to believe that Allah is above the Throne where there is no place, and behold, you placed Him in every place, truly!! Meaning in the pure places and the filthy ones, the dark corners and the sewers, the bellies of dogs and pigs, and so on; these are all examples. They were not pleased to purify the Deity as He described Himself until they placed themselves in the worst of statements; which is that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is in every place. Therefore we said earlier: their tawhid (the oneness of Allah) became "tawhil" (a play on words meaning confusion or mixing) and "hawwal" (a play on words meaning wandering or confusion). One of them said, as we said earlier before the group came, sitting comfortably like this: "Allah exists in every place, Allah exists in all existence"; this is exactly the Unity of Existence (Wahdat al-Wujud), but those who say the Unity of Existence declared it openly: "Everything you see with your eyes is Allah," and "The dog and the pig are nothing but our God *** And Allah is nothing but a monk in a church."

Another questioner : Except here; is this not... its interpretation is "our God"?

The Shaykh : Do we want to interpret?!

Another questioner : No, how do they interpret it?

The Shaykh: up to here.

The questioner : Up to here!!

The Shaykh : Except here; meaning where He is.

Another questioner : Where he is.

The Shaykh: Yes.
In summary: the truth is that this denial of the divine attributes (ta'til) is leaving the religion, if they only knew.