What is meant by disbelief in the hadith: "Except if you see clear disbelief" and the hadith
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : My teacher, regarding the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) Sahih al-Bukhari 7055, 7056, what is meant by disbelief? Is it practical or creedal?
The Shaykh : Creedal.
The questioner : Well, regarding his statement also in another hadith, and we know that the one who leaves off prayer does not become a disbeliever by leaving it off.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : How do we reconcile the two statements, or the two hadiths, or the two narrations?
The Shaykh : The contradiction has not become clear to me so that we can speak about reconciling them, so explain the contradiction to me.
The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) says
The Shaykh : Do not repeat the previous speech; explain and say, because your previous speech is understood.
The questioner : We know that leaving off prayer is not creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : And in the other hadithSahih al-Bukhari 7055, 7056, I said that the disbelief is creedal disbelief, so how do we reconcile, I mean?
The Shaykh : Do you want to say that leaving off prayer is like creedal disbelief?
The questioner : No, I meant that this is practical disbelief here, "if they do not establish prayer."
The Shaykh : I understood that.
The questioner : I say that it is practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : I do not say, what is the contradiction so that I can understand it, so that I can remove it if there is a contradiction, I mean the Messenger says it is not permissible to rebel against the imams, against the rulers, except if we see disbelief?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : What?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : I do not want to repeat the phrase "creedal disbelief" like that. Okay, and here in the second hadith, meaning do not rebel against them if they do not pray, so the meaning is that the second hadith, in your opinion, contradicts the first hadith; the first hadith contradicts the second hadith, so their establishing prayer is a barrier preventing fighting them, correct?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : A barrier preventing fighting them, this means that we have not seen clear disbelief, correct, or not?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : Here it is weak, it came out of you!!
Al-Halabi: It occurred to me, with your permission, my teacher.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Al-Halabi: Perhaps I understood now what he is saying.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: "Except if you see clear disbelief" means creedal.
The Shaykh : We rebel against him.
Al-Halabi: We rebel, no, this is the first point where the problem lies.
The Shaykh : Yes, but what is meant by the hadith?
Al-Halabi: Rebellion.
The Shaykh : That is it, good.
The questioner : Now, suppose they said, "If they do not establish prayer among you," if they leave it off?
Another questioner: We rebel against them.
Al-Halabi: We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : If they leave it off, we rebel against them?
Al-Halabi: We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : No, we do not rebel against them.
Al-Halabi: Yes, here is the problem, yes, if we said we rebel against them, it would mean they committed practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: And we rebelled against them, here is where the problem lies, yes.
The Shaykh : We now understand from this hadith a different understanding than the one you understand: "They established prayer among you."
The questioner : Among you.
The Shaykh : Not that they established prayer for themselves.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Is there a difference between the two things for you?
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Okay, so if the meaning is "they did not establish prayer among you," does the problem disappear or does it remain?
The questioner : It disappears.
The Shaykh : This is it
Al-Halabi: Our Shaykh, it seems there is a narration: "They did not establish among you prayer."
The Shaykh : That is what I mean.
Al-Halabi: Yes, glory be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed
unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief)
إلا أن تروا كفرا بواحاThe Shaykh : Creedal.
The questioner : Well, regarding his statement also in another hadith
They did not establish prayer
ما أقاموا الصلاةThe Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : How do we reconcile the two statements, or the two hadiths, or the two narrations?
The Shaykh : The contradiction has not become clear to me so that we can speak about reconciling them, so explain the contradiction to me.
The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) says
They did not establish prayer
ما أقاموا الصلاةThe Shaykh : Do not repeat the previous speech; explain and say, because your previous speech is understood.
The questioner : We know that leaving off prayer is not creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : And in the other hadith
unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief)
إلا أن تروا كفرا بوحاThe Shaykh : Do you want to say that leaving off prayer is like creedal disbelief?
The questioner : No, I meant that this is practical disbelief here, "if they do not establish prayer."
The Shaykh : I understood that.
The questioner : I say that it is practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : I do not say, what is the contradiction so that I can understand it, so that I can remove it if there is a contradiction, I mean the Messenger says it is not permissible to rebel against the imams, against the rulers, except if we see disbelief?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : What?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : I do not want to repeat the phrase "creedal disbelief" like that. Okay, and here in the second hadith
If they do not pray
ما صلواThe questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : A barrier preventing fighting them, this means that we have not seen clear disbelief, correct, or not?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : Here it is weak, it came out of you!!
Al-Halabi: It occurred to me, with your permission, my teacher.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Al-Halabi: Perhaps I understood now what he is saying.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: "Except if you see clear disbelief" means creedal.
The Shaykh : We rebel against him.
Al-Halabi: We rebel, no, this is the first point where the problem lies.
The Shaykh : Yes, but what is meant by the hadith?
Al-Halabi: Rebellion.
The Shaykh : That is it, good.
The questioner : Now, suppose they said, "If they do not establish prayer among you," if they leave it off?
Another questioner: We rebel against them.
Al-Halabi: We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : If they leave it off, we rebel against them?
Al-Halabi: We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : No, we do not rebel against them.
Al-Halabi: Yes, here is the problem, yes, if we said we rebel against them, it would mean they committed practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: And we rebelled against them, here is where the problem lies, yes.
The Shaykh : We now understand from this hadith a different understanding than the one you understand: "They established prayer among you."
The questioner : Among you.
The Shaykh : Not that they established prayer for themselves.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Is there a difference between the two things for you?
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Okay, so if the meaning is "they did not establish prayer among you," does the problem disappear or does it remain?
The questioner : It disappears.
The Shaykh : This is it
Al-Halabi: Our Shaykh, it seems there is a narration: "They did not establish among you prayer."
The Shaykh : That is what I mean.
Al-Halabi: Yes, glory be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed