What is meant by disbelief in the hadith: (except if you see clear disbelief)
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : My teacher, regarding the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) Sahih al-Bukhari 7055, 7056, what is meant by disbelief? Is it practical or creedal?
The Shaykh : Creedal.
The questioner : Well, regarding his statement in another hadith as well:, and we know that the one who abandons prayer does not become a disbeliever by abandoning it.
The Shaykh: Okay
The questioner : How do we reconcile the two statements and the two hadiths, or the two narrations?
The Shaykh : The contradiction has not been clarified to me so that we can speak about reconciling them, so explain the contradiction to me.
The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) says:
The Shaykh : Do not repeat the previous speech; explain and say, because your previous speech is understood.
The questioner : We know that abandoning prayer is not creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh: Okay
The questioner : And in the other hadithSahih al-Bukhari 7055, 7056, I said that the disbelief is creedal disbelief, so how do we reconcile it, I mean?
The Shaykh : Do you want to say that it is as if abandoning prayer is creedal disbelief?
The questioner : No, I meant that this is practical disbelief here; they did not establish prayer.
The Shaykh : I understood this.
The questioner : I say that it is practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : I do not say what is the contradiction so that I can understand it, in order to be able to remove it if there is a contradiction, I mean. The Messenger says it is not permissible to rebel against the imams or the rulers except if we see disbelief.
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh: What?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : No, I do not want to repeat the word "creedal disbelief" like that. Okay, and here in the second hadith, meaning do not rebel against them as long as they pray. So, in your opinion, the second hadith contradicts the first hadith, and the first contradicts the second. So, their establishing prayer is a preventing cause for fighting them, correct?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : A preventing cause for fighting them. This means that we have not seen clear disbelief, correct, or not?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : And the weak one came out of you!!
Al-Halabi : It occurred to me, with your permission, my teacher.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Al-Halabi : Perhaps I understood now what he is saying.
The Shaykh : is it
Al-Halabi : Except if you see clear disbelief, meaning creedal.
The Shaykh : We rebel against him.
Al-Halabi : We rebel; this does not mean this is the first point where the problem lies.
The Shaykh : Oh, but what is the meaning of the hadith?
Al-Halabi : Rebellion.
The Shaykh : This is good.
The questioner : Now, let us suppose they said: if they do not establish prayer among you, then if they abandon it.
Another questioner : We rebel against them.
Al-Halabi : We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : If they abandon it, we rebel against them?
Al-Halabi : We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : No, we do not rebel against them.
Al-Halabi : Yes, here is the problem. Yes, if we said we rebel against them, it would mean they committed practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi : And we rebelled against them. Here is where the problem lies, oh.
The Shaykh : We now understand from this hadith a different understanding than the one you are understanding: they established prayer among you.
The questioner : Among you.
The Shaykh : Not that they established prayer themselves.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Is there a difference between the two things for you?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, so if the meaning is that they did not establish prayer among you, does the problem disappear or does it remain?
The questioner : It disappears.
The Shaykh : That is it.
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, it seems there is a narration: "they did not establish prayer among you."
The Shaykh : This is what I mean.
Al-Halabi : Yes, glory be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.
unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief)
إلا أن تروا كفرا بواحاThe Shaykh : Creedal.
The questioner : Well, regarding his statement in another hadith as well:
They did not establish prayer
ما أقاموا الصلاةThe Shaykh: Okay
The questioner : How do we reconcile the two statements and the two hadiths, or the two narrations?
The Shaykh : The contradiction has not been clarified to me so that we can speak about reconciling them, so explain the contradiction to me.
The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) says:
They did not establish prayer
ما أقاموا الصلاةThe Shaykh : Do not repeat the previous speech; explain and say, because your previous speech is understood.
The questioner : We know that abandoning prayer is not creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh: Okay
The questioner : And in the other hadith
unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief)
إلا أن تروا كفرا بوحاThe Shaykh : Do you want to say that it is as if abandoning prayer is creedal disbelief?
The questioner : No, I meant that this is practical disbelief here; they did not establish prayer.
The Shaykh : I understood this.
The questioner : I say that it is practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : I do not say what is the contradiction so that I can understand it, in order to be able to remove it if there is a contradiction, I mean. The Messenger says it is not permissible to rebel against the imams or the rulers except if we see disbelief.
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh: What?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : No, I do not want to repeat the word "creedal disbelief" like that. Okay, and here in the second hadith
If they do not pray
ما صلواThe questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : A preventing cause for fighting them. This means that we have not seen clear disbelief, correct, or not?
The questioner : Correct.
The Shaykh : And the weak one came out of you!!
Al-Halabi : It occurred to me, with your permission, my teacher.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
Al-Halabi : Perhaps I understood now what he is saying.
The Shaykh : is it
Al-Halabi : Except if you see clear disbelief, meaning creedal.
The Shaykh : We rebel against him.
Al-Halabi : We rebel; this does not mean this is the first point where the problem lies.
The Shaykh : Oh, but what is the meaning of the hadith?
Al-Halabi : Rebellion.
The Shaykh : This is good.
The questioner : Now, let us suppose they said: if they do not establish prayer among you, then if they abandon it.
Another questioner : We rebel against them.
Al-Halabi : We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : If they abandon it, we rebel against them?
Al-Halabi : We rebel against them?
The Shaykh : No, we do not rebel against them.
Al-Halabi : Yes, here is the problem. Yes, if we said we rebel against them, it would mean they committed practical disbelief.
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi : And we rebelled against them. Here is where the problem lies, oh.
The Shaykh : We now understand from this hadith a different understanding than the one you are understanding: they established prayer among you.
The questioner : Among you.
The Shaykh : Not that they established prayer themselves.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Is there a difference between the two things for you?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, so if the meaning is that they did not establish prayer among you, does the problem disappear or does it remain?
The questioner : It disappears.
The Shaykh : That is it.
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, it seems there is a narration: "they did not establish prayer among you."
The Shaykh : This is what I mean.
Al-Halabi : Yes, glory be to Allah.
The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.