Statement of Ali Bilhadj's view on his reluctance to record the meeting with the Shaykh

The Shaykh : There is, regarding the matter of the righteous believers, if Allah wills.

The questioner : Yes, in any case, and I think, O Shaykh, I do not know if the brother is still insisting on recording.

The Shaykh : And he might say about you, on the contrary, that you are still insisting on not recording?

The questioner : By the way, perhaps the last time was the first time we met with you, and in any case, when we saw you, we remembered the saying of Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah have mercy on him) that if he saw a man occupied with hadith, it was as if he saw a Companion of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). This is what came to our minds, and we ask Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) that this love be for His noble Face.

The Shaykh : It is so, if Allah wills, but what I said and what was narrated from al-Shafi'i, we counter it with what was narrated from Abu Bakr al-Siddiq that when he was praised to his face, he would say, "O Allah, do not hold me accountable for what they say, and make me better than what they think, and forgive me what they do not know." Yes.

The questioner : So the reason for not recording does not mean that we disdain recording or do not see the benefits of recording; on the contrary, it is the exact opposite. But we in Algeria have suffered from these various recordings. The brothers might call you from time to time and ask you questions, and you answer with what Allah has opened for you and what you see as truth and correctness. Then the tape goes out into the public sphere and is printed, and some people adopt it, while others who do not see that fatwa or that issue as correct may disagree. But within the framework of the correct Salafi methodology, the disagreement that occurred among the Salaf, meaning, for example, a person might lean toward the opinion of Ibn 'Umar in a certain issue, while another leans toward the opinion of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him), meaning we do not step outside the framework of the righteous Salaf (may Allah be pleased with them). So they ask the other party, and he asks andThe Shaykh : also answers within the limits of the question that came to him. So these tapes go out into the public sphere, and conflict arises among the brothers, hearts become bitter, and what happens is known only to Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). And we, praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds, when we came, we truly did not come for the tapes, so as not to add to the trouble, as they say, "adding a note to the tanbur." So we said we would talk like this and discuss, perhaps on certain issues, ask about some matters, and inquire about others, only that, no more and no less. This is the reason that made me distance myself from recording and distance myself from... and I think that the believer argues with evidence, not with the one who states the evidence. Because we learned from you, O Shaykh, over many years, and we read the books and listen to the tapes, that sectarian fanaticism is one of the religious innovations that the righteous Salaf (may Allah be pleased with them and grant them satisfaction) did not know. And we, especially, learned from Islam to respect our scholars and to value them. And in some cases, we cannot even discuss matters out of modesty before our scholars, and out of fear of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) that He might hold us accountable if we argue or debate. And we hope that our scholars know this about us. Therefore, in some cases, we are forced to remain silent on some issues, based on the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) This is the context. So I do not know your comment on this or your interpretation of these issues.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you. It seems that what is implied in your words is that authorship is not suitable in this time.

The questioner : Authorship, O Shaykh, is suitable, O Shaykh. Why is it not suitable?

The Shaykh : I said it is implied, and it may not be so. So when you say it is suitable, praise be to Allah, but this was an introduction. So is recording suitable or not suitable?

The questioner : Recording is suitable, but we must distinguish between perhaps taking a book from the books of the noble Prophetic hadith and explaining a hadith from the hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and questions that relate to the lives of people and their reality. This is the difference, meaning, in this issue.
Al-'Awaisheh: Last time, without recording, despite our brother Ali (may Allah preserve him) not being willing to state some matters without recording, how is it now with recording? It is possible that if you convince him to record, he will withhold things and not be frank with you in matters. So it is better that there be recording so that he is frank with you.

The Shaykh : No problem, we think we said on that evening that we learned in Syria, "What doesn't come, come with it." We said this. Do you remember this?

The questioner : I remember it very well.

The Shaykh : So we, O Abu 'Abd al-Rahman, will return to this, but we are examining the issue, meaning, is recording considered a blessing or a curse and a cause for stirring up fitnah? If recording is a cause for stirring up fitnah? If authorship, any authorship that the author writes, those who disliked authorship, and among them Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him), he did not desire authorship, and yet many issues and books were written about him, and very many. The point, may Allah reward you, O Shaykh Ali, is that we must first take a position regarding knowledge: what is suitable for publication and what is not suitable for publication. Then, of the first category, what is suitable for publication, whether by speech, by authorship, or by recording, and what is not, then it is not. As for taking a position toward recording, for example, that is different from the position toward authorship, meaning there is a kind of contradiction here.
Abu Malik: Can I ask the brother Ali, meaning, in Algeria, do you not know this method of recording?

The questioner : No, recording exists, but now I will have to talk about things that perhaps last time, as the brother mentioned before, may Allah reward him with the best reward, there are issues that we truly cannot discuss with all people, especially those that relate between countries and the secrets of people. These must be kept confidential. And there are other reasons. In Algeria, they record, but the recordingThe Shaykh : has a specific feature compared to other recordings. Meaning, for this point, when they ask about certain issues, we do not want to say, "Al-Albani said so and so, and people should listen and obey." We want to sayThe Shaykh : Al-Albani, may Allah reward him with good, sees in this issue so and so, and his evidence is so and so, whether by derivation or study, and we refer people to the references so that we do not tie people to the person. But there are some brothers in Algeria who, if they say a certain word, perhaps without mentioning the evidence, out of their trust inThe Shaykh : of course, and their trust in his knowledge, they say yes. And this is truly what causes disagreement among Muslims. We can now come to the Shaykh, and we can, like some of the brothers do, send, for example, some young men to Jordan and write for them a set of questions. "Ask these questions toThe Shaykh : and he brings the tape, and we say to them, "Here, you say so and so, and we said so and so." This is not the way. We are not talking aboutThe Shaykh : Naturally, and because of his confidence in his knowledge, he said, "Yes." And this is, in reality, what causes, I mean, disagreement among Muslims. We can now go to the Shaykh, and we can, like some of the brothers do, send, for example, some of the young men to Jordan and write for them a set of questions to pose to him.The Shaykh : Abu Malik: What I am saying isThe Shaykh The Shaykh : if he contradicts himself in his speech, one time he says so and so, and another time he goes against what he said the first time, then we do not trust his speech.
But it is well known aboutThe Shaykh : may Allah reward him with good, that if he says a word and realizes he made a mistake in it, he publishes that to the people and says, "I made a mistake in such and such an issue." So from this perspective, we are reassured about the knowledge ofThe Shaykh : First, this is one thing. As for the second, which brought you here to Jordan to go to Baghdad, it is a very important issue, and it depends on the people there knowing the opinion ofThe Shaykh : on this topic, so that it is a help for you in this topic. And it is not intended that if he speaks,The Shaykh : it is not intended that he speaks words that you do not want or love. You have not heard his speechThe Shaykh : to reject it or say, "I do not want it." Therefore, you listen to his speechThe Shaykh : recorded. If it pleases you to listen to it and keep it, that is good and benefits the people there, if Allah wills. Otherwise, you are free from what he says.The Shaykh : until you reject it or say, "I do not want it." Therefore, you are listening to the words ofThe Shaykh : a recording. If it pleases you to listen to it and keep it, that is better and will benefit the people there, if Allah wills. Otherwise, you are free from what is said.The Shaykh : .

The Shaykh : In any case, it appears, and Allah knows best, that this specific issue, O Shaykh 'Ali, requires a dedicated scholarly study. This is because, as you know, our call is confined to returning to the Book and the Sunnah and following the methodology of the righteous predecessors. However, at the same time, we cannot burden everyone with being independent legal reasoners, or even being followers, which is the second rank, as you know, between independent legal reasoning and following a scholar without knowing his evidence. Most people, as the Lord of the Worlds said, do not know. And when we study the biography of the righteous predecessors, we do not find this precise detail you pointed out, that for every issue, one of the ten promised Paradise would be asked, and he would say it is permissible or not permissible, or obligatory or a recommended practice, and then follow the answer with evidence, as is our general plan. That was not how they dealt with the general public in knowledge. That is done with the elite. Therefore, obliging people to study the issue, especially if it is of the independent legal reasoning category you pointed out, is not possible to discuss with everyone now. Here a question comes up: "I have such and such a situation, I said such and such, I have a divorce, I have an oath, there is no room to go into detail." We tell him, "You have an oath, and the evidence is such and such, the divorce occurred or did not occur," and we answer him briefly, as is befitting the rule: "Speak to people according to the capacity of their minds." As for the methodology you pointed out, that is not for the general public; it is for their elite. This issue appears to actually require a session, and perhaps several sessions. We had hoped that you would have ample time so that you could write for us the most beneficial meeting, if Allah wills, for all of us. It was said to us that you will travel tonight. Therefore, if you wish, and according to the Syrian custom of "if you don't bring it with you, come with it," if you wish to give us a summary of what happened between you and those you contacted there, perhaps we can cooperate for good, righteousness, and piety, if Allah wills. Then we say, do you want to record? We will record. Do not record? Do not record. You indicated you want to speak, it is over, or do you want to talk?The questioner : So one of the ten promised Paradise is asked, and he says, "It is permissible" or "It is not permissible," or "It is obligatory" or "It is a recommended practice," and then he follows the answer with the evidence, as is our general plan. It was not like this in their dealings with the general public in knowledge; this is done with the select few. Therefore, obliging people to study the issue, especially if it is of the ijtihad category that you referred to, is not possible to research with everyone. Now a question comes up here: "I have such and such a situation, I said such and such, I have a divorce, I have an oath." There is no room to go into detail and say to him, "You have an oath, and the evidence is such and such, and the divorce took place or did not take place." Rather, we answer him briefly, as is fitting with the rule: "Speak to people according to the capacity of their minds." As for the methodology you referred to, that is not for the general public; it is for their select few. This issue seems to require, in reality, a session, and perhaps several sessions. We had hoped that you would have ample time so that, I mean, you could write for us the most beneficial meeting, if Allah wills, for all of us. I have been told that you are traveling tonight. Therefore, we want, if you wish, and according to the Syrian custom of "what comes with you, bring it," if you wish to give us a summary of what happened between you and those you contacted there, perhaps we can cooperate for good and righteousness and piety, if Allah wills. Then we say, "Do you want to record? We will record. Do not record? Do not record." You indicated whether you want to speak or not. It is over, or do you want to talk?
Abu Layla : I received dozens of calls from Algeria; they want tapes.The Shaykh : 'Ali Bilhaj withThe Shaykh : Nasser, and here are dozens of phone calls... regarding... what happened with the French Algerian youth... they all want tapes. Is it reasonable? What am I supposed to say? He himself...The Shaykh : 'Ali Bilhaj refused to be recorded.
Abu Malik: Then I want to say something, O Brother 'Ali, if you please. May Allah bless you. If you please, O brothers, you do not have the right to say "do not record." Why? Because, I mean, from the perspective of realistic investigation and establishment that cannot be denied, you are now in Algeria, and in Islamic scholarship, you are one of the symbols of the Islamic movement. And you, being so, cannot have it said that 'Ali Bilhaj does not want to be recorded so that his words are not taken from him or known about him. He does not want people to expect something from him, and this is something you do not have the right to withhold from them. Therefore, people must know it from you, and they must know your opinion...The Shaykh : about it. And then, so that you are on clear ground and they are too, that is what I am saying.

The questioner : I am still insisting, O Shaykh, and I am in your house, on not recording. In fact, we do not fear that anything will be taken against us. We follow the evidence wherever it goes, and we do not show bias toward people. But at the same time, we know the nature of the Algerian people, we know their psychology, and we know the fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) that is stirred up through the interpretation of the recording itself. The word of Allah the Exalted is interpreted, the word of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) is interpreted, the word of the imams is interpreted. So we do not want, of course. Now, in a little while, we can say that we can inquire about some issues, "record these, there is no harm in that." But there are some issues I do not see should be published to the general public.

The Shaykh : But this speech, O Virtue...The Shaykh : can be interpreted. So what is to be done?
Al-Halabi : O our Shaykh, in the previous session, because this is more deserving, and then there is another reality that is important, O our professor. Now questions will be directed to the Shaykh from Algeria. What happened? What do you want to tell them?

The questioner : Tell them that he refused to be recorded.
Al-Halabi : He does not want to tell them what happened without a recording.

The Shaykh : Is that not his question?
Al-Halabi : They will ask him, "What happened?" Not "what was recorded" or "what was not recorded," but "what happened, O our Shaykh, in your meeting, and what is your opinion of 'Ali Bilhaj?" Especially since this question has been posed to our professor many times, and he says, "We do not know him except by what is mentioned about him, and if Allah wills, good was mentioned." But now, in the search, matters must appear more clearly, and so on. So he will ask...The Shaykh : repeatedly and again. And you must have known and heard that last night, more than twenty or thirty phone calls came from Algeria to...The Shaykh : This is also an important point that you should take into consideration. And Allah knows best.

The questioner : The people of Makkah know its valleys best.

The Shaykh : The people of Makkah know its valleys best. This is true. But either our methodology is to record what we owe to Allah, or we do not record. And getting rid of recording on the pretext that it can be interpreted, if we do not record, that is what we said before. Either we record or we do not record. As for something we record and something we do not record, that might be in political aspects that might touch some sensitive matters. That might be possible. But a matter that must appear before people, why do we not show it with our tongue, with our tape, and with our style? Or otherwise.

The questioner : I think, O Shaykh, that a time passed for you in which you refused to be recorded.

The Shaykh : I said now, what did I say now? Finally, what did I say?

The questioner : I am going through the same time, O Shaykh, that you went through.

The Shaykh : I did not understand you. I said there is something excluded. Is this type of that kind?

The questioner : By Allah, in fact, we hope that the dialogue does not revolve only around the issue of recording or not recording. In fact, and I said, as for me, and what I see is that leaving the field of argument and dispute, and we in fact respect...The Shaykh : the knowledge of Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He. So it does not mean that we want, as Brother Abu Malik said, to get rid of perhaps the answer, or that faults will be taken against us. No person is free from something being taken against him, except that there is a refutation and a rebuttal. And these are issues, in any case, these are issues that no one in the world is free from, except Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He . No, it is not an argument against me from the side you see. It is not an argument against me. We are speaking words that in fact may be understood in this way. All these expressions, in fact, just as you studied them, we also studied them. But we fear that problems will be stirred up through a tape.

The Shaykh : O Shaykh 'Ali, if you allow.
Abu Malik: I have a suggestion, and it may combine both matters. We record but do not publish, and we keep it. I will keep this speech with me and prevent its publication until you permit it. What do you think? Would this not be from the category of scholarly trust? And we, praise be to Allah, are trusted with more than this. What do you think?

The questioner : Now you have overruled me in my matter.
Abu Malik: I thought you would say that saying of that Moroccan: "A gazelle, even if it flies."
Abu Layla : I say one thing: in some issues, I mean, say "do not publish such and such an issue."
Abu Malik: The entire tape is not published at all until permission is given.

The Shaykh : Except with consent.

The questioner : The brothers know now that we came, and the Western press came to record with me, and I refused to be recorded. And even in the state of safety, the brothers know that I am sparing in speaking to the newspapers for certain reasons. And indeed, these reasons, perhaps the news is not like the sight. So we ask Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He, after you have compelled us to record, in any case, we rely on Allah, the Sublime and Exalted .

The Shaykh : But before starting to listen to your answer to the previous question, I want you to clarify to your neighbor on the side what he means by his saying "the verse is an argument against you," because I felt that he was unable to clarify to you what he means by this word. So I hope you do not misunderstand him.

The questioner : We always take speech in a good sense.

The Shaykh : We hope you do not misunderstand him. And misunderstanding is not always accompanied by bad suspicion, and taking it in a bad sense, no. Rather, I hope that when he said "the verse you cited is an argument against you," did you pay attention to his intention?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : What is it?

The questioner : I mean, the same recording, if it is also recorded, will be taken in the same sense as this sense.

The Shaykh : So how was the verse an argument against you?

The questioner : In any case, it is not an issue that it is an argument against me.

The Shaykh : It is not important, may Allah reward you. It is not necessary that every issue be related to creed or to what is forbidden or lawful. What is important is good understanding, and that is a good thing. So when you cited the verse and said that this verse was interpreted figuratively, he wants to say, by the language of the situation, that since the speech of the Lord of the Worlds is in clear Arabic, yet it was distorted, altered, and changed, and so on, then what are you afraid of? And with this purely brotherly research, that he interprets my words, not your words, with an improper interpretation, since the speech of the Lord of the Worlds was interpreted by them—that is what I think you are aiming at. So now, please, if you wish, inform us of what you have read there, and may Allah reward you with good.

The questioner : Are you recording now?
Abu Layla : Yes.

The Shaykh: I seeThe Shaykh : He is working in politics, that is how I see it.

The questioner : O Shaykh, just as the Shaykh al-Islam said, I am a man of religion, not a man of the state.

The Shaykh : I mean, may Allah reward you, you are more cautious than politicians, especially in a brotherly Salafi gathering, where it is rare that you get the opportunity to meet with people like them in a country other than your own.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah, by whose grace good deeds are completed.

The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah.