Does one start with the right-hand person or the eldest when serving drinks?

The questioner : There is a matter here, I mean, I am confused about the issue of serving. The right-hand person, whether in drinking or in eating. We had heard from some scholars that the original or preferred practice is to start with the head of the group, or their leader, or the eldest among them, and then take from his right.

The Shaykh : In what? I mean, is it preferred to start with the eldest of the group in everything?

The questioner : In drinking. We are talking about drinking now.

The Shaykh : The specification... the possibilities.

The questioner : And we also heard from some other scholars that the original practice is to start with the right-hand person, regardless of who is the eldest. I discussed this with some scholars and went back to al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar in *al-Fath*, where he responds to those who said that one should not start, meaning one should not start with the eldest of the group and then take from his right. I do not know, his exact words are available to me, but I would like to hear your opinion first.

The Shaykh : But combining them is permissible, and we are talking about combining. Let us hear the text you have.

The questioner : The text is, of course, in the tenth volume, in the Book of Drinks. After mentioning the chapter on the right-hand person, the right-hand person in drinking, and then the chapter on whether a man should ask permission from the person on his right to drink so that he can give to the eldest, he says in the commentary: "This may be opposed by the hadith of Sahl ibn Sa'd, that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) was given a drink, and on his right was a boy and on his left were the elders, so he said The boy said, 'By Allah, O Messenger of Allah, by Allah, I would not prefer my share to anyone over you.' He said The commentary by Ibn Hajar says: 'This may be opposed by this hadith of Sahl and the hadith of Anas ibn Malik in the chapter before it, by the hadith of Sahl ibn Abi Hathmah which follows in the chapter of Qasamah, major, major.'"

The Shaykh : Major.

The questioner : It has two narrations, major, major or major. "And it was mentioned in the chapter of Purification in the hadith of Ibn 'Umar regarding the command to hand the miswak to the eldest, and more specific than that is the hadith of Ibn 'Abbas which Abu Ya'la narrated with a strong chain, in which he said: 'The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), when he gave someone a drink, would say '"

The Shaykh : Who narrated this second, last hadith?

The questioner : This is what al-Hafiz says, narrated by Ibn 'Abbas, which "Abu Ya'la narrated with a strong chain, in which he said: 'The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), when he gave someone a drink, would say: Start with the eldest.'" And it is combined by saying that it is understood in the case where they are sitting equally, or in front of the eldest, or all on his left, or behind him, or in a place where he is not among them. So this specific case is excluded from the generality of giving precedence to the right-hand person, or the generality of this command to start with the eldest is specified to when some are sitting on the right of the leader and some on his left. In this case, the younger is given precedence over the elder, and the less virtuous over the more virtuous. And it appears from this that the right-hand person is not distinguished merely by sitting on the right side, but by the specific fact that it is the right of the leader. So the virtue flowed to him from the more virtuous.
Likewise, al-Shawkani says in *Nail al-Awtar*, in the Book of Drinks: "And likewise, the one who distributes fruit to the people, he starts by giving a drink to the eldest of the people, or to the one on his right, until the last of them."

The Shaykh : Now, the question is yours...
Abu Malik: With your permission, our Shaykh, I mean, if you would defer the answer, because the food is cold.

The Shaykh : All right, we will defer the answer then, but perhaps his opinion represents the session. All right, I say, in answer to this question: Praise is to Allah, we praise Him, seek His help, and seek His forgiveness, and we seek refuge in Allah from the evils of our souls and the bad of our deeds. Whom Allah guides, none can mislead, and whom He misleads, none can guide. And I bear witness that there is no god but Allah alone, with no partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and His Messenger. As for what follows, regarding what was recited to us just now from the words of al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani (may Allah have mercy on him), I do not find in it anything that supports what he concluded, that the right-hand person's virtue in this incident that came in *Sahih al-Bukhari* was only because of the leader of the group and the most virtuous among them, who is the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). That is because the hadith explicitly states that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself did not observe this claimed virtue when he was given that drink and handed it to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and there remained in this cup some water, which is the leftover. For there was a Bedouin on his right and Abu Bakr al-Siddiq on his left, and in a narration, the elders of Quraysh. So if the matter were to start with the eldest of the group as is said, then the eldest of the group, after the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had drunk from the cup first, and then after the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) became the one giving the drink second, if the matter were as is said, he would have started with the one on his left, because he is the eldest of the group. And he would not have had any need to ask permission from the one on his right, who is Ibn 'Abbas in one narration, and a Bedouin in another narration. This is the first point. And secondly, when he asked permission from the one on his right and he did not give him permission, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) drew the attention of those present to the fact that they should not be surprised by what they saw from him, that he preferred the one on his right, who was a boy, Ibn 'Abbas, who had not yet reached the age of accountability at that time, or a Bedouin. It was not for him (peace be upon him) to prefer this one or that one over the one on his left, who was Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, except that the Shari'ah has ruled thus. And he confirms this by his saying (peace and blessings be upon him), directing their minds to this legal reality and drawing their attention to the fact that there is no room for their surprise, where he said So here there are two issues. The first issue is the one I mentioned, which is that when the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was given a drink and the cup was in his hand, and he wanted to give a drink to the one on his right or on his left, he became the one giving the drink. So if it is said that the one giving the drink starts with the eldest of the group, then the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) was required to start with Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, because he is the eldest of the group. But he did not do that; rather, he handed the cup to the one on his right, whether Ibn 'Abbas or that Bedouin. This is the first matter. And the second matter, which is very important, is that the claim of starting with the eldest of the group is only taken from this incident in... this phenomenon is what leads them to strain in interpretation, so they said: Since the one giving the drink started with the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), who is truly the eldest of the group, then the Sunnah is that the one giving the drink starts with the eldest of the group. We say the answer is that this is clinging to the apparent of this narration, which is a concise narration. If the researcher were to recall the text, he would know that arguing with this story that the one giving the drink starts with the eldest of the group is a mistake. That is because this hadith, which is the hadith of Sahl ibn Sa'd al-Sa'idi, has come in two narrations. One is the concise narration that was recited to us just now, and the other is the one that, as is said today in the language of the modern age, puts the dots on the letters and reveals the reason for the one giving the drink starting with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The explanatory narration says So the narration from Sahl has two wordings. One is concise to the end of the hadith, and another narration . Then, this narration might occur to the mind of a researcher that perhaps it is an anomalous narration, and perhaps that is why those scholars who argued with the first narration, whose apparent meaning is that the start was with the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) because he is the eldest of the group, did not refer to it. While this addition reveals that the start was with him because he was asking for a drink. So if any man asked for a drink and it was brought to him, it is not said because he is such and such, but because he asked for a drink, meaning he requested a drink. So I say, perhaps someone might say that perhaps this addition is anomalous, even though it is in *Sahih al-Bukhari*. In al-Bukhari, there are two narrations, the first and the last. So we say, to ward off such a thought that might occur to the mind of some researchers, that this addition also came from the hadith of Anas ibn Malik and from another path to the end of the hadith. So if we are asked why the one giving the drink started with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) rather than the rest of the people? The answer is because he asked for a drink. So at that time, all the details mentioned regarding this issue, which were recited to us just now, quoted from *Fath al-Bari* by Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani.

The questioner : The remaining hadiths that include starting with the eldest.

The Shaykh : I have not yet finished, may Allah reward you. Thirdly, regarding the hadith attributed to Abu Ya'la, where the Hafiz stated that its chain of narration is strong: the truth is that its chain is not strong, as he himself attested. In what remains in my memory, and I hope I am not forgetting, there is a man in Abu Ya'la's chain who is weak. I am being cautious in saying this, but I believe his name is Majdal ibn Sa'id. The Hafiz Ibn Hajar himself says in *al-Taqrib* that he is not strong. Therefore, it is not permissible for us to cite such a narration as evidence, the least of which is that its chain is weak. In fact, I say that the text of this narration is denounced because it contradicts the other narrations found in *al-Sahihayn* and elsewhere, which do not include this addition that one should begin with the eldest of the people in giving drink. This is regarding the original issue, which the question included along with others. So, perhaps you remember that I asked for the question to be specified, and the specification was regarding giving drink. If that is the case, I remind those present that the other hadiths I mentioned earlier do not mention giving drink; rather, they mention beginning with the eldest of the people in giving the miswak and beginning with the eldest of the people in speaking. Although these two incidents are authentic, I say that this issue is different from what we are discussing. This is also an answer: even if the addition that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) asked for drink were not present, they did not have the custom we have today, due to the good things and blessings Allah has made easy for us in terms of drinks and fruits, and the like. This is the issue in which al-Shawkani explicitly erred when he said, "Likewise, if fruit is distributed, one begins with the eldest of the people." I say that these are deductions that, first, did not occur during the time of the Message and Prophethood. When the one giving drink came to give the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) a drink, he did not have enough drink to give to all those present, because they were living, as you all know, in hardship. There was not, for example, the drink known today as tea or coffee, which does not cost a high price for many people, but rather they had a little milk. And so it came in the same hadithThe questioner : that reminds us of this; it does not find mention of giving drink, but rather it mentions beginning with the eldest of the people in giving the miswak and beginning with the eldest of the people in speaking. Although these two incidents are authentic, I say that this issue is different from what we are discussing. This is also an answer: even if the addition that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) asked for drink were not present, they did not have the custom we have today, due to the good things and blessings Allah has made easy for us in terms of drinks and fruits, and the like. This is the issue in which al-Shawkani explicitly erred when he said, "Likewise, if fruit is distributed, one begins with the eldest of the people." I say that these are deductions that, first, did not occur during the time of the Message and Prophethood. When the one giving drink came to give the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) a drink, he did not have enough drink to give to all those present, because they were living, as you all know, in hardship. There was not, for example, the drink known today as tea or coffee, which does not cost a high price for many people, but rather they had a little milk. And so it came in the same hadith because there was no abundance in the matter, so he did not give drink to the people when the Bedouin or Ibn Abbas drank, because nothing remained for the one on the right of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), who was the eldest of the people after the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). So there was not this giving of drink or this offering of fruit to all the seated people from which a system for distributing fruit or drink to all present could be derived. This was not the case before; rather, this incident occurred where the one giving drink began with this limited giving of drink to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and the reason, as we mentioned, is that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) asked for drink. Therefore, the issue of beginning with the eldest of the people in giving the miswak: there were no miswaks to be distributed to all the people. If there had been miswaks to be distributed to all the people, and then the Messenger ordered or gave to the eldest of the people, it could be said that the system for distributing miswaks is to begin with the eldest of the people, if there were a comprehensive distribution to all present. But there is only the fact that the Messenger (peace be upon him) offered his miswak to the eldest of the people. This is different from the issue of drink being distributed to all present. Likewise, for example, this is an issue of one man speaking: does the youngest of the people speak or the eldest? There is no sharing there, as there is sharing in food and drink. And so these hadiths mentioned by the Hafiz Ibn Hajar, following many others from the scholars, are stories that have no relation to the system of the rightmost, then the rightmost. Because here, if one wanted to apply this text regarding speech, there are not multiple speakers so that it could be said the eldest of them begins; rather, one of them wants to speak. The one who usually speaks well is the one with experience, the eldest of the people, one who has experienced life, and so on. Likewise, the miswak is given to one person; there are no miswaks to be distributed to all the present. So these stories remain within their specific context and do not take on a general system. Rather, speech is given to the eldest of the people, and the miswak is given to the eldest of the people. As for drink, the rightmost, then the rightmost is a rule established by the Messenger (peace be upon him), especially if this hadith, which came on the occasion of drink, is combined with the hadith of Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her), who said, [then after this specification she generalized and said]. Therefore, favoring the right is the original rule, especially in the matter of drinking. And I emphasize and draw attention to what was mentioned earlier: the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) drank and some residue remained. Why did he not begin directly with the head of the people? Because the rule is to begin with the one on his right, and not as they say. Finally, we say this research in the way of understanding the texts that came regarding this topic. And you have known, in brief, that the story of the drink began with the Messenger because he was Because there was no abundance in the matter, he did not give the people a drink when the Bedouin man or Ibn 'Abbas drank, as there was nothing left for the one who was to the right of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), who was the senior of the group after the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). So, there was no such distribution or offering of fruit to all the seated people from which a system for distributing fruit or drink to all attendees could be derived. This was not a pre-existing practice; rather, this incident occurred where the server began with this limited serving to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The reason, as we mentioned, is that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) asked for a drink. Therefore, the issue of starting with the senior of the group by giving the miswak: there were no miswaks. If there had been miswaks to be distributed to all the people, and then the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) ordered or gave one to the senior of the group, it could be said that the system for distributing miswaks is to start with the senior of the group, if there were a comprehensive distribution to all attendees. But there was only the fact that the Messenger (peace be upon him) offered his miswak to the senior of the group. This differs from the issue of drink being distributed to all attendees, for example. This is a matter concerning a single individual speaking; does the youngest of the group speak, or the eldest? There is no sharing involved here, as there is with food and drink. Therefore, these hadiths mentioned by al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar, following many others among the scholars of knowledge, are narratives that have no connection to the system of starting with the rightmost person. Because here, if one wanted to apply this text regarding speech, there are not multiple speakers such that it could be said the eldest among them should start; rather, one of them wants to speak. The one who usually speaks well is the person of experience, the eldest of the group, one who has experienced life, and so on. Likewise, the miswak is given to one person; there are not miswaks to be distributed to all those present. So these are narratives that remain within the scope of their specific context and do not establish a general rule. Rather, speech is given to the eldest of the group, and the miswak is given to the eldest of the group. As for drinking, starting with the rightmost person is a rule established by the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), especially when this hadith, which was reported on the occasion of drinking, is combined with the hadith of 'Aishah (may Allah be pleased with her), in which she said Then, after this specific instance, she generalized and said So, favoring the right is the original rule, especially regarding drinking. I emphasize and draw your attention to what was mentioned previously: the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) drank, and some residue remained. Why did he not start directly with the head of the group? Because the rule is to start with the person on his right, not as they claim. Finally, we present this research in the interest of understanding the texts regarding this topic. You have learned briefly that the story of the drink began with the Messenger because he wasThe student : And it is not because he is the eldest of the group that the argument is invalid from the start, especially if we consider what we mentioned earlier: when the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) drank, he became the one serving. If the rule were to start with the eldest of the group, he should have started with Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him). So, as I said, the other hadiths remain in their places and do not contradict the system of starting with the right, then the right, because here there is no right, right, and right distributed among all the attendees. No, but there is something I want to add to what came before, and then we will listen if there are other questions. If we look at this issue from a theoretical perspective, we find that this system is befitting the ease of Islam and befitting the fact that Islam is practical, not theoretical or difficult to the point that it cannot be applied without study. We say that in many gatherings, the elders of the group are present, for example, scholars, or rulers and governors. It is assumed or customary that the one serving the group is usually the least cultured and knowledgeable among them. If it were said to this server, "Start with the eldest of the attendees," it would be assumed that he has a historical study and biographies of those seated in that session. How many sessions are there in which servants are afflicted with serving? How can the Shari'ah burden this servant or this server to conduct a topical study in a very short moment and say, "This...The Shaykh : ...is the eldest of the group." I say, on this occasion, he would have to be Ibn Khaldun of his time, the historian of his time, and this is impossible. But when he is told, "Start with your right," the one entering from there knows it, the young one, let alone the elder. So this system aligns with the rule that......this is what I have regarding this specific issue, and this is what we testify to Allah with. After that, if there are some observations, we would like to hear them and benefit from them.
Strange, and where did they get this condition from?

The Shaykh : Abu Malik: I do not know. It is that the one who begins giving drink always begins with the owner of the house. This is an existing custom.
But I do not think this is consistent.

The Shaykh : Abu Malik: I think it is consistent, meaning I have seen it on more than one occasion.
For example, may Allah reward you, let us take, for example, the Syrian expression "we hit it 'Alawiyah," meaning, for example, if Fahd is present, he begins with the owner of the house? Is that not reasonable?

The Shaykh : Abu Malik: I mean, when the one giving drink is in the house of the owner of the house.
Meaning, Fahd, contrary to his system and custom, visited the owner of the house.

The Shaykh : Abu Malik: When I said a consistent custom, I mean a known custom in the Arab countries in this way. But if something unexpected happens to them, if the guest is older than the owner of the house, he begins with him. But here, some of our brothers also found difficulty with: the right of the one giving drink or the right of the seated person?
Abu Malik: So I do not know until this difficulty is removed if the picture becomes clear a little, because naturally, the argument of some of our brothers says that the pilgrim makes the house on his left and circumambulates on his right.

The Shaykh : Abu Malik: So I do not know, until this difficulty is removed if the picture becomes clear a little, because naturally, the argument of some of our brothers says that the one performing Tawaf places the house on his left and performs Tawaf on his right.
Abu Malik: So I do not know until this objection is removed, if the picture becomes clearer a bit, because naturally, the argument of some of our brothers is that the one performing tawaf places the House on his left and circumambulates on his right.

The Shaykh : Glory be to Allah. We have a principle that if a matter is incidental to the general rule, as we mentioned regarding giving the miswak to the elder and regarding starting the conversation with the elder, these matters remain incidental. So, if we were to assume for the sake of argument that the one performing tawaf goes around on his left side, meaning the House is on his left...

The questioner : I mean, the House is on his left.

The Shaykh : Yes, the one performing tawaf goes around on the left of the House, and we will clarify that this is a misconception. But if we were to assume for the sake of argument this claim, it would remain like that, and that does not contradict the rule. But is this statement correct? We all know that the one who wants to perform tawaf comes to the Black Stone, kisses it or places his forehead on it, and then he must walk. Does he take the right or the left?
Abu Malik: The right.

The Shaykh : The problem is solved. The fact that when he took the right, the Ka'bah was on his left, is not the problem. The problem is in the military system: "right turn, left turn." In the Islamic system, he turns right. The fact that the Ka'bah is on his left is not a problem. However, we say that if he actually started with the Ka'bah on his left, meaning if the system was not to face the Black Stone, if that was not the case and a specific system regarding the Ka'bah came in the Shari'ah, we would say this is an exception to the rule. And so, the entire Shari'ah is based on the specific and the general, as is not hidden from you. Therefore, this is not a problem at all. This is in terms of drawing attention to the fact that when the one performing tawaf starts, he takes the right. But it appears that the one who finds this difficult and applies the general rule to this specific detail imagines that he is coming from the Yemeni Corner with the Ka'bah on his left and walking around on his left. But no, when he started, he started with his right. But now, how do we apply this starting point, which is considered anomalous to our understanding of his saying (peace and blessings be upon him) ? The one who enters, there is someone from the professor's side who doubts his right? Abu Islam? Why does he turn like this and give from the left? This is a very strange story, truly! So there is no contradiction between the issue of tawaf and the principle that the right is preferred.
Al-Halabi : Al-Halabi: There is something related to the hadith . I remember the summary of our Shaykh's hadith in *al-Silsilah al-Sahihah*, Part Four. Our Shaykh titled the hadith or titled it with the saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) . Then he brought the routes and narrations of this hadith, and then he said that the Shaykh of Abu Ya'la was contradicted in this hadith by Abd al-Rahman ibn Sahm al-Antaki, who is a summary of the trustworthy narrators, and there is a discussion about him originally. He narrated it with the wording . So it is anomalous due to the contradiction. This is approximately the summary of our Shaykh...

The Shaykh : Well done, beautiful.
Al-Halabi : And Allah the Exalted knows best.

The Shaykh: May Allah give you health.
Al-Halabi: May Allah bless you.