He says: I read a sermon by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab in which he said, “Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed to him the Book. Among what Allah revealed to him was the verse of stoning, which we read, memorized, and understood.”
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The questioner : I read a sermon by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab in which he said, “Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed to him the Book. Among what Allah revealed to him was the verse of stoning, which we read, memorized, and understood. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) stoned, and we stoned after him. I fear that if time passes for people, someone will say, ‘We do not find stoning in the Book of Allah,’ and they will be misguided by leaving an obligation that Allah revealed. And stoning is a truth in the Book of Allah the Exalted,” to the end of the sermon. I searched for the verse of stoning and found it in the book *Bulugh al-Maram*, page 271, which is the saying of Allah the Exalted “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both”. The wonder is that this verse is not found in the Book, as 'Umar ibn al-Khattab said in this sermon. The question is: who extracted it in the books, and what is the reason? Is there any sin in reading it? In which surah was it? And please mention the verse that came before it and the verse that came after it. Answer us, O you people of virtue and knowledge. May Allah reward you with good, and peace be upon you and Allah’s mercy?
The Shaykh : This hadith mentioned by the questioner regarding 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) is established from him in the two Sahihs.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And that the verse was revealed in the Book of Allah, and the Companions read it, memorized it, preserved it, and it was applied during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the time of the Caliphs after him, and it is a truth without doubt.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But this verse is among those whose wording was abrogated while its meaning remained. The scholars have mentioned that abrogation in the Book of Allah is divided into three categories. The first is that its ruling is abrogated while its wording remains, and this is the most common occurrence in the Qur'an.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : The second is that its wording is abrogated while its ruling remains, and the third is that both its wording and its ruling are abrogated.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : An example of the first is the saying of Allah the Exalted:[Al-Anfal 8:65].
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Then He said after it, abrogating it:[Al-Anfal 8:66]. So its ruling was abrogated while its wording remained.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Its wording remained as a reminder to the Ummah of the relief Allah bestowed upon them, and also to preserve the reward for reciting it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : As for the second category, which is that its wording is abrogated while its ruling remains, an example is this verse, the verse of stoning. Its ruling remains until the Day of Resurrection. It was recited and present, but its wording was abrogated. The wisdom behind the abrogation of its wording, and Allah knows best, is to demonstrate the excellence of this Ummah over the Jewish Ummah, which concealed or tried to conceal what was present in their Book, namely the verse of stoning, when they came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to seek his ruling in the case of the two Jews.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : When a man from among them committed unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman, they brought the Torah, and the reader placed his hand over the verse of stoning until Abdullah ibn Salam said, “Lift your hand.” So, in the Jewish Ummah, the stoning of the adulterer was established in the Torah in both wording and ruling, but they tried to conceal it and not act upon it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In this Ummah, the recited wording that establishes the stoning of the adulterer was abrogated, but the Islamic Ummah applied this ruling despite the wording being abrogated. This indicates its excellence and its obedience to the command of Allah (Mighty and Majestic), and its refusal to circumvent the invalidation of His Shari'ah.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : This is what appears to me to be the wisdom behind the abrogation of its wording. However, it has been narrated that the wisdom is that the verse indicated by the brother in the question, which is “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both”, does not match the established ruling today, because the established ruling today is contingent upon being married (having the capacity for lawful marriage), not upon old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And if the verse “The old man and the old woman” is authentic, it ties the ruling to old age, not to being married. There is a difference between the two. An old man may not be married, meaning he has not married, and yet he is not stoned, whereas the implication of the verse is that he should be stoned because he is old. And a married person may be young and be stoned, whereas the implication of the verse, if it is authentic, is that he is not stoned.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Therefore, there is something in my heart regarding the authenticity of this verse, “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt, as a punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise”, even though it has been reported in the Sunan, in the Musnad, and in Ibn Hibban. However, there is something in my heart about it, because the hadith of 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) which referred to the verse of stoning said: “And stoning is a truth established in the Book of Allah for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married”.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the implication of this wording, which is established in the two Sahihs, is that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age. Therefore, one must be cautious about saying that the abrogated verse is in this wording, namely the wording “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt”, because establishing that this is the abrogated verse means establishing that it is from the speech of Allah.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And the speech of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He), according to the established legal ruling today, is restricted to being married, not to old age. And the hadith in the two Sahihs from 'Umar also indicates that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, I have something in my mind and in my heart regarding the authenticity of this wording, namely the wording of the verse that was abrogated, which is that its wording is “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt, as a punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise”.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So I cannot assert that this is the verse, meaning that this is its wording, because, as we indicated, it does not match the established legal ruling today, nor does it match the hadith established in the two Sahihs that the abrogated verse is for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married. So there is something in my heart regarding its authenticity.
As for the brother’s statement that he did not find it, he is truthful; the verse of stoning is not present in the Mushaf.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : As for in which surah it was mentioned, in Sahih Ibn Hibban it was in Surat al-Ahzab, and Allah knows best whether it was in Surat al-Ahzab or in Surat al-Nur. Allah knows best.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because the hadith must be examined, and the summary is that the saying “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt”, even though it is famous and known in the Sunan, in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad, and in Sahih Ibn Hibban, I have something in my heart regarding its authenticity. First, because it contradicts the established legal ruling, as the ruling is contingent upon being married, not upon old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Second, the wording of the hadith of 'Umar established in the two Sahihs mentioned that stoning is for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married. The implication of that is that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age. This indicates the weakness of this hadith that is narrated, so one must be careful in verifying it.
So this is the second category of the abrogated: that its wording was abrogated while its ruling remained.
The third is that both its wording and its ruling were abrogated. They gave as an example the hadith of 'A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) established in Sahih Muslim: “Among what was revealed in the Qur'an were ten known breastfeedings that prohibit [marriage]”. So these ten were abrogated in both wording and ruling, and then the ruling settled on five known breastfeedings.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : So the last part of his question, or the final aspect of his question, is that he says, “Mention the verse that was before it and the verse that was after it.” If we do not know the surah itself, we will not be able to...
The Shaykh : We said that, according to the hadith in Sahih Ibn Hibban, it was in al-Ahzab, but it is not known between which two verses it was.
The questioner : Yes, you have done well.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : This is a message that came from al-Mukhayya from Shada al-Ash'al al-Rusi or al-Rus, and its sender is 'Abd al-Ahmad Lahiq al-Ghamidi.
The Shaykh : This hadith mentioned by the questioner regarding 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) is established from him in the two Sahihs.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And that the verse was revealed in the Book of Allah, and the Companions read it, memorized it, preserved it, and it was applied during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the time of the Caliphs after him, and it is a truth without doubt.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But this verse is among those whose wording was abrogated while its meaning remained. The scholars have mentioned that abrogation in the Book of Allah is divided into three categories. The first is that its ruling is abrogated while its wording remains, and this is the most common occurrence in the Qur'an.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : The second is that its wording is abrogated while its ruling remains, and the third is that both its wording and its ruling are abrogated.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : An example of the first is the saying of Allah the Exalted:
If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
إن يكن منكم عشرون صابرون يغلبوا مائتين وإن يكن منكم مائة يغلبوا ألفاً من الذين كفروا بأنهم قوم لا يفقهونThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Then He said after it, abrogating it:
Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand
الأن خفف الله عنكم وعلم أن فيكم ضعفاً فإن يكن منكم مائة صابرة يغلوا مائتين وإن يكن منكم ألف يغلبوا ألفينThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Its wording remained as a reminder to the Ummah of the relief Allah bestowed upon them, and also to preserve the reward for reciting it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : As for the second category, which is that its wording is abrogated while its ruling remains, an example is this verse, the verse of stoning. Its ruling remains until the Day of Resurrection. It was recited and present, but its wording was abrogated. The wisdom behind the abrogation of its wording, and Allah knows best, is to demonstrate the excellence of this Ummah over the Jewish Ummah, which concealed or tried to conceal what was present in their Book, namely the verse of stoning, when they came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to seek his ruling in the case of the two Jews.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : When a man from among them committed unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman, they brought the Torah, and the reader placed his hand over the verse of stoning until Abdullah ibn Salam said, “Lift your hand.” So, in the Jewish Ummah, the stoning of the adulterer was established in the Torah in both wording and ruling, but they tried to conceal it and not act upon it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In this Ummah, the recited wording that establishes the stoning of the adulterer was abrogated, but the Islamic Ummah applied this ruling despite the wording being abrogated. This indicates its excellence and its obedience to the command of Allah (Mighty and Majestic), and its refusal to circumvent the invalidation of His Shari'ah.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : This is what appears to me to be the wisdom behind the abrogation of its wording. However, it has been narrated that the wisdom is that the verse indicated by the brother in the question, which is “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both”, does not match the established ruling today, because the established ruling today is contingent upon being married (having the capacity for lawful marriage), not upon old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And if the verse “The old man and the old woman” is authentic, it ties the ruling to old age, not to being married. There is a difference between the two. An old man may not be married, meaning he has not married, and yet he is not stoned, whereas the implication of the verse is that he should be stoned because he is old. And a married person may be young and be stoned, whereas the implication of the verse, if it is authentic, is that he is not stoned.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Therefore, there is something in my heart regarding the authenticity of this verse, “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt, as a punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise”, even though it has been reported in the Sunan, in the Musnad, and in Ibn Hibban. However, there is something in my heart about it, because the hadith of 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) which referred to the verse of stoning said: “And stoning is a truth established in the Book of Allah for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married”.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the implication of this wording, which is established in the two Sahihs, is that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age. Therefore, one must be cautious about saying that the abrogated verse is in this wording, namely the wording “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt”, because establishing that this is the abrogated verse means establishing that it is from the speech of Allah.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And the speech of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He), according to the established legal ruling today, is restricted to being married, not to old age. And the hadith in the two Sahihs from 'Umar also indicates that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, I have something in my mind and in my heart regarding the authenticity of this wording, namely the wording of the verse that was abrogated, which is that its wording is “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt, as a punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise”.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So I cannot assert that this is the verse, meaning that this is its wording, because, as we indicated, it does not match the established legal ruling today, nor does it match the hadith established in the two Sahihs that the abrogated verse is for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married. So there is something in my heart regarding its authenticity.
As for the brother’s statement that he did not find it, he is truthful; the verse of stoning is not present in the Mushaf.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : As for in which surah it was mentioned, in Sahih Ibn Hibban it was in Surat al-Ahzab, and Allah knows best whether it was in Surat al-Ahzab or in Surat al-Nur. Allah knows best.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because the hadith must be examined, and the summary is that the saying “The old man and the old woman if they commit unlawful sexual intercourse, stone them both without doubt”, even though it is famous and known in the Sunan, in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad, and in Sahih Ibn Hibban, I have something in my heart regarding its authenticity. First, because it contradicts the established legal ruling, as the ruling is contingent upon being married, not upon old age.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Second, the wording of the hadith of 'Umar established in the two Sahihs mentioned that stoning is for one who commits unlawful sexual intercourse if he is married. The implication of that is that the abrogated verse tied the ruling to being married, not to old age. This indicates the weakness of this hadith that is narrated, so one must be careful in verifying it.
So this is the second category of the abrogated: that its wording was abrogated while its ruling remained.
The third is that both its wording and its ruling were abrogated. They gave as an example the hadith of 'A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) established in Sahih Muslim: “Among what was revealed in the Qur'an were ten known breastfeedings that prohibit [marriage]”. So these ten were abrogated in both wording and ruling, and then the ruling settled on five known breastfeedings.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : So the last part of his question, or the final aspect of his question, is that he says, “Mention the verse that was before it and the verse that was after it.” If we do not know the surah itself, we will not be able to...
The Shaykh : We said that, according to the hadith in Sahih Ibn Hibban, it was in al-Ahzab, but it is not known between which two verses it was.
The questioner : Yes, you have done well.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : This is a message that came from al-Mukhayya from Shada al-Ash'al al-Rusi or al-Rus, and its sender is 'Abd al-Ahmad Lahiq al-Ghamidi.