And from him, he said: I said, O Messenger of Allah, I sell camels at al-Baqi', so I sell for dinars and take dirhams, and I sell for dirhams and take dinars.
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The Shaykh : Then he said, "And from him," meaning from Ibn 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him), he said: Bulugh al-Maram 7:28 In another narration: Al-Baqi' is well known; it is Baqi' al-Gharqad, which contains the cemetery of the people of Madinah. Al-Naqi' means a place where water collects, and it is a location ... in Madinah where camels are sold. He said, "We used to sell them at al-Baqi' or at al-Naqi'," Bulugh al-Maram 7:28 to the end of it.
His statement:Bulugh al-Maram 7:28 Dinars is the plural of dinar, which is gold currency, and dirhams is the plural of dirham, which is silver currency. The two currencies are gold and silver. So he would sell for dinars and take dirhams, and vice versa. And his statement: Bulugh al-Maram 7:28 Here, "from" means substitution, i.e., in the sense of exchange, because one of the meanings of "from" is substitution. From this is the statement of Allah the Exalted: [Az-Zukhruf 43:60] "from you," meaning as a substitute for you. So he takes this as a substitute for that, and this as a substitute for that. Then the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: Sunan Abi Dawud 3354Da'if (Al-Albani) An example of this is selling a camel for five dinars, so he takes sixty dirhams for it, or selling it for sixty dirhams and taking five dinars for it. So the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was asked about that, and he said: Sunan Abi Dawud 3354Da'if (Al-Albani) "There is no harm," meaning there is no blame and no sin. The pronoun refers to the compensation taken as a substitute for the compensation established in the liability, whether he takes dinars as a substitute for dirhams or dirhams as a substitute for dinars. But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stipulated two conditions, saying: "Do not increase and do not decrease." For example, if he sold me five dinars and the value of the dinar is five dirhams, how much do we take as compensation?
The student: Five ...
The Shaykh : Huh?
The student: Five ...
The Shaykh : O my brothers, for how much did he sell it?
The student: Five.
The Shaykh : Five dinars, and the dinar is ten dirhams.
The student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : How much?
The student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : Fifty dirhams, he takes fifty dirhams for it. Now, what if he took sixty dirhams for it?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. What if he took forty dirhams for it?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : Yes, it is not permissible. The apparent meaning of the hadith is that it is not permissible, because he saidBulugh al-Maram 7:28 Now, as for taking sixty dirhams as compensation for these five, it is not permissible. The reason is that he profits in what has not entered his guarantee; he profits in a right that is a debt owed to him in the liability of the buyer. So he profits in something that has not entered his guarantee, and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade profiting from what has not been gained, as mentioned earlier in the hadith of whom?
The student: 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb.
The Shaykh : No, is it not Hakim ibn Hizam?
The student: 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb.
The Shaykh : Now, in the hadith of 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, yes. Now, so we say the reason for that is what? It is not permissible to profit in something that has not entered one's guarantee. Now, if he sold it for fifty, if he takes fifty for it, is it permissible or not?
The student: It is permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible, because this is the price of the day. If he takes forty for the five, and the value of the dinar is ten, the apparent meaning of the hadith is that it is not valid. But this is not our intention; this is not our intention. I mean, it is permissible to take forty for these five dinars, where the value of the dinar is ten, because this is in the interest of whom?
The student : The seller.
The Shaykh : It is in the interest of the buyer who ... owes five dinars, and I only took forty dirhams from him. If he went to buy the dinars, he would have paid fifty dirhams. Now, if someone says, "How do you contradict the implication of the hadith?" We say that the implication is true even in one case. And here, it is true in what? In one case, which is if it is not?
The student: With an increase.
The Shaykh : With an increase. But if it is with a decrease, there is no harm with it, as the principles of the Shari'ah do not object to it. Just as if fifty dirhams were established in your liability to me, and you said, "Give me forty dirhams, and you are free of the debt," is this not permissible?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Now, the second condition, he said:Sunan an-Nasa'i 4589Hasan (Darussalam) Meaning that it is stipulated that the compensation be taken before separating. This is apparent, because this is a sale of gold for silver, and the sale of gold for silver requires?
The student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange before separating, due to the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in the hadith of 'Ubadah ibn al-Samit:Sahih Muslim 1587c So it is necessary that the seller receive the compensation for the price in the session of the contract. An example: I sold you this camel for five dinars, the value of the dinar is ten. These are five dinars. Then I wanted to take dirhams for these dinars, and the value of the dinar is ten. How many dirhams do I take?
The student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : Fifty. Now, I said, so I convert ... the gold to silver, and I left fifty dirhams in your liability. Is this permissible? Hmm?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. He must give me the dirhams. He must hand over the dirhams to me. The reason, as I mentioned to you, is that the sale of gold for silver requires?
The student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange in the session of the contract. Now, if I took as compensation for it something in which delay is permissible, meaning I said, "The dirhams in your liability, I will take this car for them," and you agreed. Is this permissible or not?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : And he did not take possession of the car.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes? If you say it is permissible, you are wrong. If you say it is not permissible, you are wrong. Now, distinguish?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : And if he did not take possession of it.
The student: How?
The Shaykh : And if he did not take possession of it, meaning in the session of the contract.
The student: ... It is necessary.
The Shaykh : It is necessary?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : We say, if the car is equal in value to what is in the liability of the one who gave it, then we have obtained the condition, which is? His statement "at the price of the day." For example, if he owed me ten thousand riyals in his liability, and he said, "I will give you this car for it," and the car is worth ten thousand riyals, is the condition found now or not?
The student: It is found.
The Shaykh : It is found. Now, but I separated from him and did not take possession of the car. Is this permissible?
The student: It is not permissible, because two conditions are violated.
The Shaykh : Yes, we said that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) stipulated "as long as you do not separate while anything remains between you." He stipulated this condition because he will take dirhams for the dinars, or dinars for the dirhams. And the sale of gold for silver requires?
The student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange in the session of the contract. Now, the sale of the car for dirhams.
The student: It is not required.
The Shaykh : It is not required in it. And based on that, it is permissible for me to take this car as compensation for what is in his liability without taking possession of it. It remains with him; whenever I want, I will take possession of it. Is this clear, my brothers?
The student: It is clear.
The Shaykh : Now, and the 'illah (operative cause) in it ... and the reason for the attribution in the hadith is clear. The 'illah for it being necessary to be at the price of the day?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : So that he does not profit in what he has not guaranteed. He profits in something that has not entered your guarantee ... and in the liability of the second party. And the second 'illah is "as long as you do not separate while anything remains between you," because the sale of gold for silver requires mutual exchange in the session of the contract. And based on this 'illah, if I took as compensation for the dirhams something in which delay is permissible, then taking possession in the session of the contract is not required.
I said, "O Allah's Messenger, I sell camels at al-Baqi'.
قلت يا رسول الله إنّي أبيع الإبل بالنّقيعat al-Baqi'
بالبقيعI sell for Dinars and take Dirhams (for them), and sell for Dirhams, and take Dinars (for them), I take this for that and give that for this (i.e. Dinars and Dirhams)." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "There is no harm in taking them at the current rate so long as you do not separate
فأبيع بالدنانير وآخذ بالدراهم ، وأبيع بالدراهم وآخذ الدنانير، آخذ هذا من هذا وأعطي هذه من هذا، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: لا بأس أن تأخذها بسعر يومها ما لم تفترقاHis statement:
I sell for Dinars and take Dirhams
فأبيع بالدّنانير وآخذ الدّراهمI take this for that and give that for this
آخذ هذا من هذه وأعطي هذه من هذاAnd if We willed, We could have made [instead] of you angels succeeding [one another] on the earth.
ولو نشاء لجعلنا منكم ملائكة في الأرض يخلفونThere is no harm in taking them at the current rate
لا بأس أن تأخذها بسعر يومهاThere is no harm in taking them at the current rate so long as you do not separate leaving something to be settled.
لا بأس أن تأخذها بسعر يومها ما لم تفترقا وبينكما شيءin taking them
أن تأخذهاAt the price of the day.
بسعر يومهاThe student: Five ...
The Shaykh : Huh?
The student: Five ...
The Shaykh : O my brothers, for how much did he sell it?
The student: Five.
The Shaykh : Five dinars, and the dinar is ten dirhams.
The student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : How much?
The student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : Fifty dirhams, he takes fifty dirhams for it. Now, what if he took sixty dirhams for it?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. What if he took forty dirhams for it?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : Yes, it is not permissible. The apparent meaning of the hadith is that it is not permissible, because he said
at the current rate so long as you do not separate
بسعر يومها ما لم تتفرّقاThe student: 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb.
The Shaykh : No, is it not Hakim ibn Hizam?
The student: 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb.
The Shaykh : Now, in the hadith of 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, yes. Now, so we say the reason for that is what? It is not permissible to profit in something that has not entered one's guarantee. Now, if he sold it for fifty, if he takes fifty for it, is it permissible or not?
The student: It is permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible, because this is the price of the day. If he takes forty for the five, and the value of the dinar is ten, the apparent meaning of the hadith is that it is not valid. But this is not our intention; this is not our intention. I mean, it is permissible to take forty for these five dinars, where the value of the dinar is ten, because this is in the interest of whom?
The student : The seller.
The Shaykh : It is in the interest of the buyer who ... owes five dinars, and I only took forty dirhams from him. If he went to buy the dinars, he would have paid fifty dirhams. Now, if someone says, "How do you contradict the implication of the hadith?" We say that the implication is true even in one case. And here, it is true in what? In one case, which is if it is not?
The student: With an increase.
The Shaykh : With an increase. But if it is with a decrease, there is no harm with it, as the principles of the Shari'ah do not object to it. Just as if fifty dirhams were established in your liability to me, and you said, "Give me forty dirhams, and you are free of the debt," is this not permissible?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Now, the second condition, he said:
still unfinished business between you both
ما لم تفترقا وبينكما شيءThe student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange before separating, due to the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in the hadith of 'Ubadah ibn al-Samit:
If these classes differ, then sell as you wish if payment is made hand to hand.
فإذا اختلفت هذه الأصناف فبيعوا كيف شئتم إذا كان يدا بيدThe student: Fifty.
The Shaykh : Fifty. Now, I said, so I convert ... the gold to silver, and I left fifty dirhams in your liability. Is this permissible? Hmm?
The student: It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. He must give me the dirhams. He must hand over the dirhams to me. The reason, as I mentioned to you, is that the sale of gold for silver requires?
The student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange in the session of the contract. Now, if I took as compensation for it something in which delay is permissible, meaning I said, "The dirhams in your liability, I will take this car for them," and you agreed. Is this permissible or not?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : And he did not take possession of the car.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes? If you say it is permissible, you are wrong. If you say it is not permissible, you are wrong. Now, distinguish?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : And if he did not take possession of it.
The student: How?
The Shaykh : And if he did not take possession of it, meaning in the session of the contract.
The student: ... It is necessary.
The Shaykh : It is necessary?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : We say, if the car is equal in value to what is in the liability of the one who gave it, then we have obtained the condition, which is? His statement "at the price of the day." For example, if he owed me ten thousand riyals in his liability, and he said, "I will give you this car for it," and the car is worth ten thousand riyals, is the condition found now or not?
The student: It is found.
The Shaykh : It is found. Now, but I separated from him and did not take possession of the car. Is this permissible?
The student: It is not permissible, because two conditions are violated.
The Shaykh : Yes, we said that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) stipulated "as long as you do not separate while anything remains between you." He stipulated this condition because he will take dirhams for the dinars, or dinars for the dirhams. And the sale of gold for silver requires?
The student: Mutual exchange.
The Shaykh : Mutual exchange in the session of the contract. Now, the sale of the car for dirhams.
The student: It is not required.
The Shaykh : It is not required in it. And based on that, it is permissible for me to take this car as compensation for what is in his liability without taking possession of it. It remains with him; whenever I want, I will take possession of it. Is this clear, my brothers?
The student: It is clear.
The Shaykh : Now, and the 'illah (operative cause) in it ... and the reason for the attribution in the hadith is clear. The 'illah for it being necessary to be at the price of the day?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : So that he does not profit in what he has not guaranteed. He profits in something that has not entered your guarantee ... and in the liability of the second party. And the second 'illah is "as long as you do not separate while anything remains between you," because the sale of gold for silver requires mutual exchange in the session of the contract. And based on this 'illah, if I took as compensation for the dirhams something in which delay is permissible, then taking possession in the session of the contract is not required.