Continuation of the explanation of the author's statement and his saying: “And the consumption of riba”

The Shaykh : ... So the categories differ, and the implication of the hadith is that it is permissible if it is hand-to-hand. So what is the solution to this objection? Or did you understand? Is it clear? So what is the solution?
The student: ... .

The Shaykh : If these categories differ, such as wheat and barley, dates and salt.
The student: ... .

The Shaykh : What?
The student: ... .

The Shaykh : Yes, we say: In reality, this matter is difficult, because the implication of the hadith is that if you sell gold for wheat, you must take possession, based on the saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): But we answer this by saying: The Sunnah has indicated from another angle that taking possession is not a condition. The Sunnah has indicated from another angle that taking possession is not a condition. What is the Sunnah that indicated this? Salam (forward sale). Ibn Abbas said: And on this basis, the hadith does not have a general application to its implication. It does not have a general application to its implication, meaning that taking possession is not required in every form of the issue, but taking possession is only required when they agree in purpose—Allahu Akbar—and as the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said... He said:
The second: Sorcery. Its definition and explanation have been mentioned previously... killing the soul that Allah has forbidden except by right.
And we said that the forbidden soul is of four categories: the Muslim and the dhimmi (a non-Muslim under Muslim protection)... for example: .
And the fourth: The consumption of riba (usury or interest). It was mentioned previously that riba is... in six, or seven? Hmm?
The student : Six.

The Shaykh : Be certain.
The student : Six.

The Shaykh : Six categories, and the sale of one of them for its kind requires two conditions... mutual exchange in the meeting of the contract. If there is no equality and there is exchange, it is riba al-fadl (usury of excess in a like-for-like exchange), such as selling a sa' (a dry measure of about 3 kg) of wheat for two sa' of it hand-to-hand. This is riba al-fadl... and riba al-nasi'ah (usury of deferment). And if there is excess and delayed exchange, hmm? It is riba al-nasi'ah and riba al-fadl.
It was mentioned previously that if a thing is sold for something of a different kind... mutual exchange... and the purpose and intent, is it required? Hmm?
The student: It is not required.

The Shaykh : Nothing is required? Yes, correct, nothing is required. So wheat for silver requires mutual exchange but not equality, and wheat for silver requires equality but not exchange? Neither equality nor exchange is required, yes? Correct. And wheat for barley requires mutual exchange but not equality, because they agree in the 'illah (the operative cause of a ruling). The purpose of each is food. We mentioned... regarding the categories other than these six, they differed. Some said there is no riba. And some said: There is riba in categories other than the six.
Those who said: There is no riba except in these six categories are the Zahiris. Why? Because they reject qiyas (analogical reasoning), as they hold that there is no qiyas. And on this basis, we restrict ourselves to what came in the text, and we say: Riba does not apply to categories other than these. So if they sell rice for wheat, is it permissible? ... And it is also permissible to delay, to delay the exchange, because they did not enter into what was specified in the text.
And the people of qiyas from the followers of the four schools of jurisprudence extended the ruling to others. They extended the ruling to others, except that some of them did not extend the ruling to others, and he is one of the qiyas scholars, like Ibn Aqil (may Allah have mercy on him), from the jurists of the school of Imam Ahmad, who says: “That riba does not apply to categories other than the six”. Not because there is no qiyas, but because the scholars differed. So when they differed regarding the 'illah... on what it was, there is no riba except in the six categories.
And the correct view is that riba applies to categories other than the six, and that the 'illah is weighing or storage with food, that it is stored food. Stored food, this is regarding dates, wheat, and barley.
Regarding gold and silver, the 'illah is... and currency. The kind and currency. So we said: The kind, for the sake of what? ... riba applies to it, or not? Hmm? Even though it is not a price for goods that are sold and bought. And currency, like dirhams and dinars and known paper money, is in the position of gold and silver.
We are left with salt. What is the 'illah in salt?
The student: ... .

The Shaykh : ... What is eaten. I believe you have salt with you. It is used instead of eating and instead of drinking, but he says the Shaykh al-Islam: “That it is suitable for food”. So the 'illah is that it is not food, but it is one of its necessities. For this reason, if you ground wheat and there was no salt in it, it would not last but a few days before it spoils. So if there is salt in it, it prevents it from spoiling. So because it makes the food suitable, it was given its ruling. Yes. Now, this is the consumption of riba.
And his saying (peace and blessings be upon him): . The condition is not eating. Suppose a person deals in riba but uses the riba in carpets, in building real estate, in buying cars, not eating it. Does it fall under the hadith or not?
The student: It falls under it.

The Shaykh : It falls under the hadith, but he mentioned eating because it is the most general of the forms of benefit, as the scholars said. For this reason, Allah said regarding the Children of Israel: . They took riba. He did not say: And they ate it. Taking is more general than eating, or not? More general than eating. So the consumption of riba means taking it, whether for eating or for using it in carpets or in building dwellings. Good.