The Sixth Section: On the Doubt of Those Who Say That Allah Is With Us in Our Places and the Refutation of Them
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The Shaykh : We want to refute this statement. First, we ask: What is their evidence? And what is the refutation of them? We ask: What is their evidence, or rather, what is their doubt?
The student: What is their doubt?
The Shaykh : What is their doubt? Because it is not evidence; they have no evidence. Their doubt is that they say, "The apparent meaning of the text is with us." And all the pronouns refer back to Allah. [Al-Baqarah 2:29] All the pronouns refer to Allah. And if He is with us, we do not understand from "being with" (mu'ayyah) anything but mixing in place and accompanying in place. Pay attention, do you understand?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : No, no, Hamad?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is their doubt?
The student: Their doubt.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: That they say, regarding the saying of the Exalted, we take the apparent meaning of the verse.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: And He is with you wherever you are.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: We take its apparent meaning, Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He).
The Shaykh : Allah, all the pronouns in and and
The student: To Allah
The Shaykh : All refer to Allah. So, "He is with you." What took it away from Allah? So we take its apparent meaning. Do you understand? Good. So how do we answer them regarding that? We answer them by saying that its apparent meaning is not as you stated. It is not as you stated. If the apparent meaning were as you stated, it would be
The student: A contradiction.
The Shaykh : It would be a contradiction in the verse: that He is established above the Throne and He is with every person in any place. Correct? Contradiction is prohibited. This is the first point.
Second: Your statement that "being with" (mu'ayyah) is not conceivable except with mixing or accompanying in place is prohibited. This is prohibited and not accepted. "Being with" in the Arabic language is absolute accompanying. Absolute accompanying. It is broader in meaning than what you claimed. It may imply mixing. It may imply mixing, and it may imply agreement in place, i.e., accompanying in place. And it may imply absolute accompanying even if the place differs. These are three things. The "being with" that implies mixing, as when you say, "Give us milk with water," meaning
The student: Mixed with the water.
The Shaykh : Mixed with water. Mixed with water, it becomes one thing. And when do I give you this milk with water? When the night becomes dark so that it is not seen.
"Until when the darkness of night spread, *** They brought a cup. Have you ever seen a wolf?"
Meaning, a cup like a wolf. The wolf is grayish, is it not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Have I seen the wolf, Hamad? Grayish. Good. Meaning, they brought a grayish cup. If it were pure milk,
The student: It would become white.
The Shaykh : It would become white. Good. And if it were pure water,
The student: It has no color.
The student: The color of the vessel.
The Shaykh : Good. They say that water has no color.
The student: Nor taste.
The Shaykh : It has no color.
The student: Nor taste.
The Shaykh : No, nor taste. We do not obey them. In the Qur'an No. They say it has no color. Why? He said, if you put it in a white vessel?
The student: It becomes white.
The Shaykh : And in a green one?
The student: It becomes green.
The Shaykh : It becomes green, correct?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, in any case, let us leave this issue. Perhaps this is a natural science issue that we do not know. But the point is that this is mixing. This "being with" is of what type?
The student: Mixing.
The Shaykh : Mixing. Good. And it is said, "So-and-so came with so-and-so." "So-and-so came with so-and-so." Does this mean they are together in one place or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. In one place, they walk together and they descend together. And it is said that the "being with" that does not imply mixing or sharing in place: So-and-so is with his soldiers. So-and-so is with his soldiers, even if he is in the command room far away, but he directs them. So is there mixing in this?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : Sharing in a place?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : No. And it is said, "So-and-so's wife is with him," even if she is in the East and he is in the West. So, "being with" (mu'ayyah), as Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, and as is apparent from the evidence of the language, what is its meaning? Its meaning is absolute accompanying. Or, if you wish, express it as, and this is more correct, absolute accompanying. Absolute accompanying. Then it is according to what it is attributed to. So if it is said:[An-Nahl 16:128], that does not imply mixing or sharing in place, but it is a "being with" befitting Allah. So your claim that "being with" in the saying of the Exalted: [Al-Hadid 57:4] implies mixing, this is a false claim. First, because this is not necessary in the Arabic language. And the second thing is that this is impossible with regard to
The student: Allah (Mighty and Majestic).
The Shaykh : Allah (Mighty and Majestic). So the apparent meaning of the verse is not as they claimed.
Third: We say that your claim, and may Allah protect us, is the refutation of falsehood and the most severe disparagement of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). And Allah (Mighty and Majestic) mentioned it here about Himself, boasting with it or disparaging?
The student: Boasting.
The Shaykh : (Mighty and Majestic), boasting with it. Boasting with it that He is with, despite His being above His Throne, He is
The student: With us.
The Shaykh : With the creation, even if they are below Him. But according to your claim, this is the ultimate disparagement of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). How, O servant of Allah? We say, because if you place Allah in the earth, this is a deficiency. Good. If you place Allah in every place, and you enter the latrines, do you know latrines?
The student: Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : The place for relieving oneself. Is this a deficiency or not a deficiency?
The student: The greatest deficiency.
The Shaykh : The greatest deficiency. You cannot say this, nor can any king of the world. Yes, if you are in the latrine, if you said it, your tongue would precede your head. But how can you say it about Allah (Mighty and Majestic)? And is this anything but the greatest deficiency, and may Allah protect us?
Fourth: Your statement necessitates one of two things, and there is no third, and both are impossible. Either Allah is divided or multiplied. Correct, or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Either He is divided or multiplied. Either He is multiplied, meaning each part of Him is in a direction. Or He is divided into parts, a part of Him is here, and a part of Him is there. We seek refuge in Allah. As for Him being One, this is not possible with the multiplication of places, because the multiplication of places necessitates the multiplication of places, or not? How can the place be multiplied and you are One? This does not happen.
The student: This is true for the created.
The Shaykh : Yes, even for the Creator. Basically, this is not possible. If you say that Allah has a place, a place in the mosque, a place in the market, a place in such and such, and a place in such and such, then multiplication or division is necessitated. And at that time, we say that this is, in the fourth aspect, what refutes what? What refutes their statement. The fifth.
The student: The sixth.
The Shaykh : The fifth. The fifth is that we say your statement also necessitates one of two things. Either Allah is present in the creation, if He is in every place.
The student: What is their doubt?
The Shaykh : What is their doubt? Because it is not evidence; they have no evidence. Their doubt is that they say, "The apparent meaning of the text is with us."
And He is with you
وهو معكمIt is He who created
هو الذي خلقthen He established
ثم استوىHe knows
يعلمAnd He is with you
وهو معكمThe student: Yes.
The Shaykh : No, no, Hamad?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is their doubt?
The student: Their doubt.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: That they say, regarding the saying of the Exalted, we take the apparent meaning of the verse.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: And He is with you wherever you are.
The Shaykh : Yes
The student: We take its apparent meaning, Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He).
The Shaykh : Allah, all the pronouns in
Created.
خلقIstawa (He rose)
استوىHe knows
يعلمThe student: To Allah
The Shaykh : All refer to Allah. So, "He is with you." What took it away from Allah? So we take its apparent meaning. Do you understand? Good. So how do we answer them regarding that? We answer them by saying that its apparent meaning is not as you stated. It is not as you stated. If the apparent meaning were as you stated, it would be
The student: A contradiction.
The Shaykh : It would be a contradiction in the verse: that He is established above the Throne and He is with every person in any place. Correct? Contradiction is prohibited. This is the first point.
Second: Your statement that "being with" (mu'ayyah) is not conceivable except with mixing or accompanying in place is prohibited. This is prohibited and not accepted. "Being with" in the Arabic language is absolute accompanying. Absolute accompanying. It is broader in meaning than what you claimed. It may imply mixing. It may imply mixing, and it may imply agreement in place, i.e., accompanying in place. And it may imply absolute accompanying even if the place differs. These are three things. The "being with" that implies mixing, as when you say, "Give us milk with water," meaning
The student: Mixed with the water.
The Shaykh : Mixed with water. Mixed with water, it becomes one thing. And when do I give you this milk with water? When the night becomes dark so that it is not seen.
"Until when the darkness of night spread, *** They brought a cup. Have you ever seen a wolf?"
Meaning, a cup like a wolf. The wolf is grayish, is it not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Have I seen the wolf, Hamad? Grayish. Good. Meaning, they brought a grayish cup. If it were pure milk,
The student: It would become white.
The Shaykh : It would become white. Good. And if it were pure water,
The student: It has no color.
The student: The color of the vessel.
The Shaykh : Good. They say that water has no color.
The student: Nor taste.
The Shaykh : It has no color.
The student: Nor taste.
The Shaykh : No, nor taste. We do not obey them.
This is a severe torment
هذا عذب فراتAnd this is salt, bitter
وهذا ملح أجاجThe student: It becomes white.
The Shaykh : And in a green one?
The student: It becomes green.
The Shaykh : It becomes green, correct?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, in any case, let us leave this issue. Perhaps this is a natural science issue that we do not know. But the point is that this is mixing. This "being with" is of what type?
The student: Mixing.
The Shaykh : Mixing. Good. And it is said, "So-and-so came with so-and-so." "So-and-so came with so-and-so." Does this mean they are together in one place or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. In one place, they walk together and they descend together. And it is said that the "being with" that does not imply mixing or sharing in place: So-and-so is with his soldiers. So-and-so is with his soldiers, even if he is in the command room far away, but he directs them. So is there mixing in this?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : Sharing in a place?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : No. And it is said, "So-and-so's wife is with him," even if she is in the East and he is in the West. So, "being with" (mu'ayyah), as Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, and as is apparent from the evidence of the language, what is its meaning? Its meaning is absolute accompanying. Or, if you wish, express it as, and this is more correct, absolute accompanying. Absolute accompanying. Then it is according to what it is attributed to. So if it is said:
Indeed, Allah is with those who fear Him
إن الله مع الذين اتقواand He is with you wherever you are
وهو معكم أينما كنتمThe student: Allah (Mighty and Majestic).
The Shaykh : Allah (Mighty and Majestic). So the apparent meaning of the verse is not as they claimed.
Third: We say that your claim, and may Allah protect us, is the refutation of falsehood and the most severe disparagement of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). And Allah (Mighty and Majestic) mentioned it here about Himself, boasting with it or disparaging?
The student: Boasting.
The Shaykh : (Mighty and Majestic), boasting with it. Boasting with it that He is with, despite His being above His Throne, He is
The student: With us.
The Shaykh : With the creation, even if they are below Him. But according to your claim, this is the ultimate disparagement of Allah (Mighty and Majestic). How, O servant of Allah? We say, because if you place Allah in the earth, this is a deficiency. Good. If you place Allah in every place, and you enter the latrines, do you know latrines?
The student: Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : The place for relieving oneself. Is this a deficiency or not a deficiency?
The student: The greatest deficiency.
The Shaykh : The greatest deficiency. You cannot say this, nor can any king of the world. Yes, if you are in the latrine, if you said it, your tongue would precede your head. But how can you say it about Allah (Mighty and Majestic)? And is this anything but the greatest deficiency, and may Allah protect us?
Fourth: Your statement necessitates one of two things, and there is no third, and both are impossible. Either Allah is divided or multiplied. Correct, or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Either He is divided or multiplied. Either He is multiplied, meaning each part of Him is in a direction. Or He is divided into parts, a part of Him is here, and a part of Him is there. We seek refuge in Allah. As for Him being One, this is not possible with the multiplication of places, because the multiplication of places necessitates the multiplication of places, or not? How can the place be multiplied and you are One? This does not happen.
The student: This is true for the created.
The Shaykh : Yes, even for the Creator. Basically, this is not possible. If you say that Allah has a place, a place in the mosque, a place in the market, a place in such and such, and a place in such and such, then multiplication or division is necessitated. And at that time, we say that this is, in the fourth aspect, what refutes what? What refutes their statement. The fifth.
The student: The sixth.
The Shaykh : The fifth. The fifth is that we say your statement also necessitates one of two things. Either Allah is present in the creation, if He is in every place.