Continuation of the explanation of the author's statement: "And whoever sells a ribawi item on credit and takes in exchange for its price something that is not sold for it on credit."
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The Shaykh : Whoever sells a ribawi item on credit. We say that there are six ribawi items: gold, silver, wheat, dates, barley, and what else? Salt. These are the six. We leave gold and silver aside and do not use them as examples; we use the remaining four as examples.
He sold a ribawi item. Is wheat ribawi or not ribawi?
The questioner : It is ribawi.
The Shaykh : It is ribawi. He sold one hundred sa' for one hundred riyals, deferred for one year. Is the price due immediately or deferred?
The questioner : It is deferred.
The Shaykh : It is deferred. All right, during the year the seller came to the buyer, or when the term ended the seller came to the buyer and said to him, "Give me the money now that the term has arrived." He said, "Give me the money." The buyer said, "I have nothing but dates. I have nothing but dates." Are dates sold for wheat on credit or not?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : I mean, are dates sold for wheat without possession, meaning without mutual exchange?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : No. Therefore, it is not permissible for him to take dates in exchange for the money. Why? Because dates are not sold for wheat on credit. If he does so, he has taken in exchange for the price something that is not sold for it on credit, and it becomes forbidden. It becomes forbidden. Pay attention now. Why? He said, "Because it may be used as a ruse to sell wheat for dates without mutual exchange." For example, he says, "I sold you wheat for two hundred riyals on credit," and then he buys dates, so he uses a ruse for what? For selling wheat for dates with a delay in taking possession of the price. Is that clear, everyone?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : Yes, perhaps this is the case. Perhaps it is used as a ruse, and ruses are prohibited by the Shari'ah because they are deception of Allah and His Messenger, and because they are the practice of the Jews. All right, is the phrase understood now?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Whoever sells a ribawi item on credit and takes in exchange for its price something that is not sold for it on credit. The meaning of his saying "on credit" is with a deferred price. And "took in exchange for its price" means for the price of the ribawi item, he took something that is not sold for it, meaning for the aforementioned ribawi item, on credit. All right, if he took in exchange for the price, meaning he sold for dirhams and took in exchange for the dirhams dinars, taking dinars for them, is that permissible or not?
The questioner : It is permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible. Why? Because selling wheat for dinars is permissible on credit. So this man, for example, sold one hundred sa' of wheat for two hundred dirhams, and when the term arrived, the buyer said, "I have nothing of the dirhams, but I have gold. I will give you gold." Is this permissible or not? It is permissible. Why? Because gold is permissible to be sold for wheat on credit. But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stipulated two conditions: that it be at the price of the day, and that they exchange possession before parting. Because Ibn 'Umar asked him for a ruling, and he said: Do you understand now?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, or not?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, we return to our previous issue: whoever sells a ribawi item on credit and takes in exchange for its price something that is not sold for it on credit. The author says that this is forbidden and not permissible because it is a ruse, or it may be used as a ruse. Al-Muqaffi, the author of "Al-Mughni", said it is permissible. He said it is permissible because the ruse here is remote. How would he sell, for example, wheat for dates after a year? That is remote. So the ruse is remote, and what is remote is not considered. Do you know this?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Peace and the mercy of Allah. This man says, "A phrase... wait, come, take the right hand. Give me your hand." Yes, take the right hand and I give with the right hand. So, Al-Muqaffi (may Allah have mercy on him) said there is no harm in that. There is no harm because the danger of riba is remote, and using a ruse for riba in this form after a year is remote. This is very remote. And Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said it is permissible out of need, so he took a middle position between the two opinions. How is it permissible out of need? He means, when the term arrived and the buyer came, he said, "By Allah, I have nothing but dates." See, we are still with the first example. He sold him wheat for dirhams on credit for a year. The year arrived, so he came to the buyer and said, "Give me the dirhams." The buyer said, "By Allah, I have nothing. I am a man, for example, let us suppose he is a farmer. He has no dirhams, and people call this liquidity in commercial custom. I have no dirhams, but I have dates." There is a need in this, so he said, "I will take the dates in exchange for the dirhams." We say, according to the opinion of Shaykh al-Islam, it is permissible. So the issue has three opinions: the first is absolute prohibition, the second is absolute permissibility, and the third is permissibility out of need. And in my view, this is the best of the opinions, to remove the doubt and so that the door is not opened for others. Perhaps we may not do this as a ruse, but others may use a ruse. All right.
There remains a condition that is necessary on the opinion of permissibility. A condition is necessary, which is that the one taking the payment does not profit. We take this condition from the saying of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in the hadith of Ibn 'Umar:Sunan Abi Dawud 3354Da'if (Al-Albani) And we also take it from the prohibition of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) of profiting from what has not been guaranteed. That means he prohibited profiting from something that has not entered your guarantee. For example, he sold him wheat for two hundred riyals on credit for a year. The year arrived, and he said, "I have nothing but dates." He said, "All right, I will take the dates." He took from him four hundred kilograms of dates worth two hundred and fifty dirhams. Is that permissible or not?
The questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible.
The questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible. By Allah, you are timid. How can I mention the condition to you and then... All right, so is it permissible or not permissible?
The questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. Why? Because now you have profited from something that has not entered your guarantee. These dates are worth two hundred and fifty, and what is in the man's debt? Two hundred. Now you have gained. I received two hundred and fifty instead of two hundred in something that has not entered my guarantee. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibitedSunan an-Nasa'i 4631Sahih (Darussalam) Do you know why? Because if that were permissible, every person could ask someone for dirhams, for example, and when they become due, say, "Give me food in exchange for them. The dirhams are two hundred, and give me food worth two hundred and fifty." Profit. Do you understand? Then perhaps every time the debt becomes due, he takes an exchange greater than the debt, and the multiplication of profit on this poor person is repeated, and harm results from that. For this reason, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited profiting from what has not been guaranteed. So how many opinions are there in the issue now?
The questioner : Three opinions.
The Shaykh : Three opinions. The opinion of prohibition does not require us to mention a condition or otherwise. We do not mention a condition because it is not realized. The opinion of permissibility, whether out of need or absolutely, we add to it a condition, which is that there is no profit, meaning that one does not take an exchange greater than what is in the debt of the one being asked. Because if he took an exchange greater than what is in the debt of the one being asked, he would have profited from what he has not guaranteed, meaning what has not entered his guarantee. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited this.
I hope, if Allah wills, that it is clear now?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The dirhams that I have in the man's debt, are they in my guarantee now or in his guarantee?
The questioner : They are in his guarantee.
The Shaykh : All right, now you have profited from them. You took an exchange worth two hundred and fifty, and they are two hundred, so you profited from them.
He sold a ribawi item. Is wheat ribawi or not ribawi?
The questioner : It is ribawi.
The Shaykh : It is ribawi. He sold one hundred sa' for one hundred riyals, deferred for one year. Is the price due immediately or deferred?
The questioner : It is deferred.
The Shaykh : It is deferred. All right, during the year the seller came to the buyer, or when the term ended the seller came to the buyer and said to him, "Give me the money now that the term has arrived." He said, "Give me the money." The buyer said, "I have nothing but dates. I have nothing but dates." Are dates sold for wheat on credit or not?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : I mean, are dates sold for wheat without possession, meaning without mutual exchange?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : No. Therefore, it is not permissible for him to take dates in exchange for the money. Why? Because dates are not sold for wheat on credit. If he does so, he has taken in exchange for the price something that is not sold for it on credit, and it becomes forbidden. It becomes forbidden. Pay attention now. Why? He said, "Because it may be used as a ruse to sell wheat for dates without mutual exchange." For example, he says, "I sold you wheat for two hundred riyals on credit," and then he buys dates, so he uses a ruse for what? For selling wheat for dates with a delay in taking possession of the price. Is that clear, everyone?
The questioner : Clear.
The Shaykh : Yes, perhaps this is the case. Perhaps it is used as a ruse, and ruses are prohibited by the Shari'ah because they are deception of Allah and His Messenger, and because they are the practice of the Jews. All right, is the phrase understood now?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Whoever sells a ribawi item on credit and takes in exchange for its price something that is not sold for it on credit. The meaning of his saying "on credit" is with a deferred price. And "took in exchange for its price" means for the price of the ribawi item, he took something that is not sold for it, meaning for the aforementioned ribawi item, on credit. All right, if he took in exchange for the price, meaning he sold for dirhams and took in exchange for the dirhams dinars, taking dinars for them, is that permissible or not?
The questioner : It is permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible. Why? Because selling wheat for dinars is permissible on credit. So this man, for example, sold one hundred sa' of wheat for two hundred dirhams, and when the term arrived, the buyer said, "I have nothing of the dirhams, but I have gold. I will give you gold." Is this permissible or not? It is permissible. Why? Because gold is permissible to be sold for wheat on credit. But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stipulated two conditions: that it be at the price of the day, and that they exchange possession before parting. Because Ibn 'Umar asked him for a ruling, and he said:
O Messenger of Allah, we sell camels for dirhams and take dinars in exchange for the dirhams, and we sell them for dinars and take dirhams in exchange for them. Is that permissible? He said: There is no harm in taking them at the price of the day, as long as you do not part while there is anything between you.
يا رسول الله نحن نبيع الإبل بالدراهم ونأخذ بدل الدراهم دنانير ونبيعها بالدنانير ونأخذ بدلها دراهم فهل يجوز ذلك؟ قال لا بأس أن تأخذها بسعر يومها ما لم تتفرّقا وبينكما شيءThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, or not?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, we return to our previous issue: whoever sells a ribawi item on credit and takes in exchange for its price something that is not sold for it on credit. The author says that this is forbidden and not permissible because it is a ruse, or it may be used as a ruse. Al-Muqaffi, the author of "Al-Mughni", said it is permissible. He said it is permissible because the ruse here is remote. How would he sell, for example, wheat for dates after a year? That is remote. So the ruse is remote, and what is remote is not considered. Do you know this?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Peace and the mercy of Allah. This man says, "A phrase... wait, come, take the right hand. Give me your hand." Yes, take the right hand and I give with the right hand. So, Al-Muqaffi (may Allah have mercy on him) said there is no harm in that. There is no harm because the danger of riba is remote, and using a ruse for riba in this form after a year is remote. This is very remote. And Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said it is permissible out of need, so he took a middle position between the two opinions. How is it permissible out of need? He means, when the term arrived and the buyer came, he said, "By Allah, I have nothing but dates." See, we are still with the first example. He sold him wheat for dirhams on credit for a year. The year arrived, so he came to the buyer and said, "Give me the dirhams." The buyer said, "By Allah, I have nothing. I am a man, for example, let us suppose he is a farmer. He has no dirhams, and people call this liquidity in commercial custom. I have no dirhams, but I have dates." There is a need in this, so he said, "I will take the dates in exchange for the dirhams." We say, according to the opinion of Shaykh al-Islam, it is permissible. So the issue has three opinions: the first is absolute prohibition, the second is absolute permissibility, and the third is permissibility out of need. And in my view, this is the best of the opinions, to remove the doubt and so that the door is not opened for others. Perhaps we may not do this as a ruse, but others may use a ruse. All right.
There remains a condition that is necessary on the opinion of permissibility. A condition is necessary, which is that the one taking the payment does not profit. We take this condition from the saying of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in the hadith of Ibn 'Umar:
There is no harm in taking them at the current rate
لا بأس أن تأخذها بسعر يومهThe questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible.
The questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is permissible. By Allah, you are timid.
The audience laughed
ضحك الحضورThe questioner : It is not permissible.
The Shaykh : It is not permissible. Why? Because now you have profited from something that has not entered your guarantee. These dates are worth two hundred and fifty, and what is in the man's debt? Two hundred. Now you have gained. I received two hundred and fifty instead of two hundred in something that has not entered my guarantee. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited
profiting on what you do not possess
عن ربح ما لم يُضمنThe questioner : Three opinions.
The Shaykh : Three opinions. The opinion of prohibition does not require us to mention a condition or otherwise. We do not mention a condition because it is not realized. The opinion of permissibility, whether out of need or absolutely, we add to it a condition, which is that there is no profit, meaning that one does not take an exchange greater than what is in the debt of the one being asked. Because if he took an exchange greater than what is in the debt of the one being asked, he would have profited from what he has not guaranteed, meaning what has not entered his guarantee. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited this.
I hope, if Allah wills, that it is clear now?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The dirhams that I have in the man's debt, are they in my guarantee now or in his guarantee?
The questioner : They are in his guarantee.
The Shaykh : All right, now you have profited from them. You took an exchange worth two hundred and fifty, and they are two hundred, so you profited from them.