Is a woman touching her child's private parts while washing him a nullifier of the ablution?

The questioner : The fourth question: Is a woman touching her child's private parts while washing him a nullifier of the ablution? And what is your opinion regarding the statement of some scholars: that it is not a nullifier, even according to the view that ablution is obligatory from touching the private parts without desire? Because this is one of the matters that has become widespread! If it were a nullifier... we would not mind, he asked and he answered.

The Shaykh : Yes, but he got himself into trouble.

The questioner : Yes, exactly, hehe.

The Shaykh : I want to say something. He asks, and this repeats, glory be to Allah, from many people: when the mother washes her child and touches his organ or her organ, does it nullify her ablution? I want to say more than that: even if she touched her own organ, her ablution is not nullified.

The questioner : She herself, meaning.

The Shaykh: Ah.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : So her ablution is not nullified.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Because we understand from the hadith that came: that it is not an absolute touching; by the evidence of the hadith of Talq ibn Ali al-Yamani who asked the Messenger (peace be upon him), saying: "I am standing praying, so I extend my hand and scratch my body, so I touch my organ." He answered him (peace be upon him): . We understood from this hadith, along with what we added to the hadith of Busrah which stated the obligation of ablution from touching the private parts, that the hadith of Busrah should be interpreted by this hadith of Talq. So we say at that time that the touching mentioned is what is done with desire. Therefore, if a man or a woman touches his or her organ, and it is a natural touching, as Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him) indicated, and as you know, he is one of the great jurists of the Companions, when he was asked about a man touching his organ, he answered with the phrase of the jurists: "Is it not?" Yes, he said: "It is the same whether you touched it or you touched my nose."

The questioner : "The tip of my nose."

The Shaykh : This is an interpretation of the hadith of the Messenger (peace be upon him): ; so if the touching of the private parts is with desire, and what is meant here by desire is the fiddling that arouses desire.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Then it is the nullifier. Therefore, this woman and those like her have no harm in touching her child's private parts.

The questioner : What if she touched her husband's organ without desire?

The Shaykh : Likewise.